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    Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

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    Ice

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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by Ice on Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:14 pm

    No, it isn't a credible defence, I agree, but the point is, it doesn't need to be a defence for an issue that when all the facts come to light, and not just the stuff leaked by those still trying to destabilise us, these MAJOR issues, will be deemed basically non-issues or issues that the NRL will agree have been raised by or are being adequately addressed by the existing board with the controls put in place as recommended by independent auditors, Shubert and the NRL.

    I think the worst that will come of this is some fines when the current board agree that some small payments to Watmough and/or Hayne, should be included in this years cap, which will see us go over the cap. To suggest there is anything like the systematic rorting undertaken by the Bulldogs and the Storm is simply waaaaay off the mark. And the reality is, the Leagues CLub is going so good that a monetary fine won't impact us in any way. Only injuries will prevent us dominating this year!!!
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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by No Worries on Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:20 pm

    knowingly, willingly, intentionally rorting the cap over a sustained period = systematic

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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by Ice on Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:23 pm

    @leaguegod wrote:what about 80K for suits thats never arrived ? media calling that a hidden player payment


    if thats true, that is blatantly cheating the cap


    you can argue some examples thrown around in the media are minor but the fact there are so many examples and proof of the board discussing ways to beat the cap is not a good sign no matter how you look at it


    i personally hope no points are lost, huge finds, any board member implacted told to buzz off and move on but i feel the board will dig their heels and the nrl just make take 4 pts off them

    $80k to who for suits that never arrived??

    Where is the evidence that the board discussed ways to rort the cap. They discussed options for corporate hospitality and all the media have talked about is some minutes "suggesting" that they were deliberately discussing ways to "rort the cap". Seriously, you haven't seen all the minutes of the board meetings, nor have the media, they have just been siphoned stuff that Fitzgerald/Hadlee want them/us to see and it totally lacks any context. The media are in it for 1 thing, to sell papers, and turmoil at Parra, anything with Hayne sell oodles of papers. Certainly "Parramatta discuss ways to improve Corporate Hospitality and diligently record discussion in board meeting in the minutes of those meeting as required by corporations act" isn't going to sell many papers. But "Parra paying Hayne under table and having top level cap rorting meetings" is gonna make headlines.

    Only time will tell with this one, I'll reserve judgment on the basis that the same board runs the Leagues and Football Club, and that Board, with the CEO self reported serious breaches to the regulators of the Leagues Club, got that house in order to the point they turned losses into a 12million profit in only two years and are still working through a myriad of issues on the Football Club side and face bigger hurdles due to the baggage left by past Football Club CEO/Directors.

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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by Ice on Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:27 pm

    Your Name wrote:knowingly, willingly, intentionally rorting the cap over a sustained period = systematic

    And there is no evidence that you have seen that suggests we have done that or that we will cop the type of punishment the Dogs or Storm did as the current Board are doing everything they can to uncover all the issues they inherit and continue to uncover. You've only seen what the media have been leaked by people clearly trying to bring the current board down. But the facts are the current board and CEO of the Leagues Club absolutely showed up the dodginess of their predecessors and totally turned it around, but it is proving a tougher job with the Football Club due to the intricacies of the salary cap.

    Time will prove me right on this, as it usually does.
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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by ryno_ on Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:11 pm

    @Ice wrote:

    $80k to who for suits that never arrived??

    Where is the evidence that the board discussed ways to rort the cap.  They discussed options for corporate hospitality and all the media have talked about is some minutes "suggesting" that they were deliberately discussing ways to "rort the cap".  Seriously, you haven't seen all the minutes of the board meetings, nor have the media, they have just been siphoned stuff that Fitzgerald/Hadlee want them/us to see and it totally lacks any context.  The media are in it for 1 thing, to sell papers, and turmoil at Parra, anything with Hayne sell oodles of papers.  Certainly  "Parramatta discuss ways to improve Corporate Hospitality and diligently record discussion in board meeting in the minutes of those meeting as required by corporations act" isn't going to sell many papers.  But "Parra paying Hayne under table and having top level cap rorting meetings" is gonna make headlines.

    Only time will tell with this one, I'll reserve judgment on the basis that the same board runs the Leagues and Football Club, and that Board, with the CEO self reported serious breaches to the regulators of the Leagues Club, got that house in order to the point they turned losses into a 12million profit in only two years and are still working through a myriad of issues on the Football Club side and face bigger hurdles due to the baggage left by past Football Club CEO/Directors.

    $80k paid to a company for services not provided. Sounds like a rort to me.

    And isnt there a signed copy of board room minutes where the board openly discuss (knowingly or not) illegal ways to get around the cap?
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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by No Worries on Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:25 pm

    @Ice wrote:

    And there is no evidence that you have seen that suggests we have done that or that we will cop the type of punishment the Dogs or Storm did as the current Board are doing everything they can to uncover all the issues they inherit and continue to uncover.  You've only seen what the media have been leaked by people clearly trying to bring the current board down.  But the facts are the current board and CEO of the Leagues Club absolutely showed up the dodginess of their predecessors and totally turned it around, but it is proving a tougher job with the Football Club due to the intricacies of the salary cap.

    Time will prove me right on this, as it usually does.

    You keep falling back on current board, that doesn't change the fact that there has been systematic cheating of the salary cap occurring at the Eels for years
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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by dasherhalo on Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:44 pm

    @ryno_ wrote:

    $80k paid to a company for services not provided. Sounds like a rort to me.

    And isn't there a signed copy of board room minutes where the board openly discuss (knowingly or not) illegal ways to get around the cap?

    ah..... i'm not 100% certain how a board meeting at the Eels goes, but if I had a meeting that discussed possible illegal activities, I'd be asking Mildred the stenographer to leave the room. If it just came about in conversation during said board meeting (again, not how I run my annual meetings), i certainly wouldn't be putting my signature below the part that said "what about paying for 100 suits and not getting them?".

    So, either it's all BS (about there being a signed copy), or it was simply a frank discussion about how to get as close to the edge as possible, which is fair enough. The board surely have a duty to explore way to maximize the effectiveness of the cap and TPA's.



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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by ryno_ on Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:51 pm

    @dasherhalo wrote:

    ah..... i'm not 100% certain how a board meeting at the Eels goes, but if I had a meeting that discussed possible illegal activities, I'd be asking Mildred the stenographer to leave the room. If it just came about in conversation  during said board meeting (again, not how I run my annual meetings), i certainly wouldn't be putting my signature below the part that said "what about paying for 100 suits and not getting them?".

    So, either it's all BS (about there being a signed copy), or it was simply a frank discussion about how to get as close to the edge as possible, which is fair enough. The board surely have a duty to explore way to maximize the effectiveness of the cap and TPA's.




    Thats what I thought... but its the Eels. Im surprised they had enough time for a boardroom meeting with all the window licking going on.

    More then likely, they just didnt realise that discussing payments/benefits to be made to Third Party sponsors WAS illegal.

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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by Ice on Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:20 pm

    @ryno_ wrote:

    $80k paid to a company for services not provided. Sounds like a rort to me.

    And isnt there a signed copy of board room minutes where the board openly discuss (knowingly or not) illegal ways to get around the cap?

    Where's the evidence of this $80k......what?....its the stuff you've read in the tele that was leaked by Fitzgerald and his cronnies. Oh, ok, well, it must all be true.

    Again, if thats what you've read in the tele, then of course it must be 100% fact. have the tele shown us the full minutes from multiple meetings or just twisted a few key points cause they are so chummy with Hadlee and Fitzgerald??

    Look, we have issues, serious issues that need addressing, I'm not denying that at all, but the current board and CEO have shown they are willing to do that and work lock step with NRL, government, OLGR, whoever it is, to clean the joint out, so I don't think standing the board down and providing an opening for the destabilisers the very same people responsible for plenty of the issues in the first place, is the right way forward.

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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by Ice on Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:20 pm

    Your Name wrote:

    You keep falling back on current board, that doesn't change the fact that there has been systematic cheating of the salary cap occurring at the Eels for years

    As there has been with most if not all other clubs. What is your point?
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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by ryno_ on Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:38 pm

    @Ice wrote:

    Where's the evidence of this $80k......what?....its the stuff you've read in the tele that was leaked by Fitzgerald and his cronnies.  Oh, ok, well, it must all be true.  

    Again, if thats what you've read in the tele, then of course it must be 100% fact. have the tele shown us the full minutes from multiple meetings or just twisted a few key points cause they are so chummy with Hadlee and Fitzgerald??

    Look, we have issues, serious issues that need addressing, I'm not denying that at all, but the current board and CEO have shown they are willing to do that and work lock step with NRL, government, OLGR, whoever it is, to clean the joint out, so I don't think standing the board down and providing an opening for the destabilisers the very same people responsible for plenty of the issues in the first place, is the right way forward.

    So evidence doesnt count if its reported in the Tele? Does it really matter whats in the rest of the minutes - that snippet is pretty damning by itself and I cant imagine what could be in the rest of the minutes that disqualifies the evidence.

    @Ice wrote:As there has been with most if not all other clubs. What is your point?

    How many other clubs have been repeatedly fined to the extent of Parra? Its not only systematic, but repeated at a level not equalled by any other club. Add up the punishments since the Storm got done...

    Eels - 615k (4 breaches)
    StG - 38k (2)
    Bris - 17k (1)
    Syd - 27.25k (2)
    Can - 38k (3)
    WT - 197k (2)
    GC - 420k (3)
    Pen - 40k (1)
    Man - 6k (1)
    New - 35k (1)

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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by Ice on Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:52 pm

    What evidence, a selected extract from a board report to sell papers?? That is all anyone has seen. Of course it matters what is in the rest of the minutes relevant to the discussion being conducted.

    Hang on, why does history go back only until after the storm got done. Your list verifies my point. Most if not all other clubs breach the cap for all manner of reasons.

    Look, I've not once denied we have issues and others doing it doesn't absolve us of our responsibility. I fully expect additional action to be taken, fully accepted by the current board, fines paid in full and recommendations actioned, as they have shown they are willing to do.

    I'm simply saying, the current board and CEO of the Leagues Club lead the charge to clean up that side of the business and were overwhelmingly successful, there can be absolutely NO disputing that or the MASSIVE success they have had. Losses to a 12 million profit inside a couple of years, it is extraordinary, and whose responsible? Its not shear dumb luck on the part of the CEO and Board, but the Football Club side of things is far more complex with the Cap issues. But they have shown they are willing to be open and transparent, self report issues previously covered up, engage the services of experts in the Cap to make sure going forward they are totally compliant. The media agenda is to sell papers and via the radio, get Fitzy and his cohort, people in part responsible for the mess, back into power. The Tele and Hadley are kidding themselves if they think a return to Fitz and some of the criminals looking to get back involved is the way to go.

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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by No Worries on Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:51 am

    @Ice wrote:What evidence, a selected extract from a board report to sell papers??  That is all anyone has seen.  Of course it matters what is in the rest of the minutes relevant to the discussion being conducted.

    Hang on, why does history go back only until after the storm got done.  Your list verifies my point. Most if not all other clubs breach the cap for all manner of reasons.

    Look, I've not once denied we have issues and others doing it doesn't absolve us of our responsibility. I fully expect additional action to be taken, fully accepted by the current board, fines paid in full and recommendations actioned, as they have shown they are willing to do.

    I'm simply saying, the current board and CEO of the Leagues Club lead the charge to clean up that side of the business and were overwhelmingly successful, there can be absolutely NO disputing that or the MASSIVE success they have had. Losses to a 12 million profit inside a couple of years, it is extraordinary, and whose responsible? Its not shear dumb luck on the part of the CEO and Board, but the Football Club side of things is far more complex with the Cap issues. But they have shown they are willing to be open and transparent, self report issues previously covered up, engage the services of experts in the Cap to make sure going forward they are totally compliant.  The media agenda is to sell papers and via the radio, get Fitzy and his cohort, people in part responsible for the mess, back into power. The Tele and Hadley are kidding themselves if they think a return to Fitz and some of the criminals looking to get back involved is the way to go.


    Apparently the NRL & NSW Gaming & Liquor don't share your flippant view. I do particularly like the bit about Sharp & Issa pulling the rorts as they are running both boards. Thisreeks worse than the Bulldogs, Storm & Warriors combined. Does it say $8million ???


    THE net is closing on the beleaguered directors and officers of the Parramatta Eels, with Liquor and Gaming NSW now part of the investigation.

    The move by the clubs regulator came as Eels chairman Steve Sharp made a desperate pitch to cling to his role.

    “I shouldn’t resign at the moment,” Mr Sharp said last night in an interview with Fox Sports News.


    Parramatta chairman Steve Sharp.
    “I’m the person, and the board I’m working with, that’s driving change in our organisation.”

    A Liquor and Gaming NSW spokesman last night confirmed it was “monitoring the situation around Parramatta Leagues Club as it unfolds”.

    Liquor and Gaming NSW has extensive powers over clubs and their governing bodies, with the ability to launch prosecutions and to suspend and remove directors and officers.


    The fresh official interest comes amid new revelations this week that dodgy invoices were issued to cover up third-party payments to Eels players.

    This was on top of extensive allegations over the past week over suspect transactions involving sponsors and third parties at the club.


    The boards of the two clubs are identical, with beleaguered Eels chairman Steve Sharp also the chairman of the Leagues Club. Tom Issa is his deputy at both clubs, which last year subsidised the Eels by $8 million.
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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by ryno_ on Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:11 am

    @Ice wrote:What evidence, a selected extract from a board report to sell papers??  That is all anyone has seen.  Of course it matters what is in the rest of the minutes relevant to the discussion being conducted.

    Its on the record that they were discussing almost 600k worth of illegal third party deals. Fact - unless your suggesting the evidence is fabricated? If there was something else in the minutes where the CEO said "lol jokes guys, the last 15min of talks was all just a good chuckle", it would have been released by now. Putting your head in the sand because you dont like the source doesnt make the evidence go away.

    @Ice wrote:Hang on, why does history go back only until after the storm got done.  Your list verifies my point. Most if not all other clubs breach the cap for all manner of reasons.

    Because I couldnt be bothered adding them up back more then 5 years, if you have the time, feel free. Its on nrl.com. If your point is that other clubs do it aswell, thats both a ridiculous point (it doesnt excuse a thing) to make and an unintelligent one when you look at the extent to which each other club has been caught. My point was not no club has been caught more and punished more then Parra - 4 times in 5 years, more times then others and more fines then others - only 2 other teams have been stung more then 100k (over the 5 years)... Parra have chalked up more then 600k in fines. You cant honestly think that Eels being stung $620k and StG (for eg) less then $40k or Manly being fined less then 1% of the Eels fines is really comparable as "other clubs breaching aswell".

    @Ice wrote:Look, I've not once denied we have issues and others doing it doesn't absolve us of our responsibility. (So whats the point of saying "Most if not all other clubs breach the cap"?) I fully expect additional action to be taken, fully accepted by the current board, fines paid in full and recommendations actioned, as they have shown they are willing to do.

    I'm simply saying, the current board and CEO of the Leagues Club lead the charge to clean up that side of the business and were overwhelmingly successful, there can be absolutely NO disputing that or the MASSIVE success they have had. Losses to a 12 million profit inside a couple of years, it is extraordinary, and whose responsible? Its not shear dumb luck on the part of the CEO and Board, but the Football Club side of things is far more complex with the Cap issues.

    Yes, but running a glorified RSL to a profit doesnt build up goodwill you can use to excuse past systematic exploitation and cheating - it seems redundant to mention the business success of the current admin when looking at past boards.

    @Ice wrote:But they have shown they are willing to be open and transparent, self report issues previously covered up, engage the services of experts in the Cap to make sure going forward they are totally compliant.  The media agenda is to sell papers and via the radio, get Fitzy and his cohort, people in part responsible for the mess, back into power. The Tele and Hadley are kidding themselves if they think a return to Fitz and some of the criminals looking to get back involved is the way to go.

    I dont think anybody is suggesting the old crew be re-instated.

    This post is just a lot of bluster about how good the new board members are and how untrustworthy the media in general is. All reasonable and mostly correct points - but ultimately, what have they got to do with the price of tea in china?

    Did the Eels systematically and willingly cheat the salary cap, through paying past players and dodgy third party deals? It certainly seems like it. There hasnt been any evidence pointing to the contrary and a lot put forward in the affirmative. No amount of co-operation or goodwill from the current administration forgives that and they should be belted with fines, monetary and competition points.

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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by Ice on Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:53 am

    Your Name wrote:

    Apparently the NRL & NSW Gaming & Liquor don't share your flippant view. I do particularly like the bit about Sharp & Issa pulling the rorts as they are running both boards. Thisreeks worse than the Bulldogs, Storm & Warriors combined. Does  it say $8million ???


    THE net is closing on the beleaguered directors and officers of the Parramatta Eels, with Liquor and Gaming NSW now part of the investigation.

    The move by the clubs regulator came as Eels chairman Steve Sharp made a desperate pitch to cling to his role.

    “I shouldn’t resign at the moment,” Mr Sharp said last night in an interview with Fox Sports News.


    Parramatta chairman Steve Sharp.
    “I’m the person, and the board I’m working with, that’s driving change in our organisation.”

    A Liquor and Gaming NSW spokesman last night confirmed it was “monitoring the situation around Parramatta Leagues Club as it unfolds”.

    Liquor and Gaming NSW has extensive powers over clubs and their governing bodies, with the ability to launch prosecutions and to suspend and remove directors and officers.


    The fresh official interest comes amid new revelations this week that dodgy invoices were issued to cover up third-party payments to Eels players.

    This was on top of extensive allegations over the past week over suspect transactions involving sponsors and third parties at the club.


    The boards of the two clubs are identical, with beleaguered Eels chairman Steve Sharp also the chairman of the Leagues Club. Tom Issa is his deputy at both clubs, which last year subsidised the Eels by $8 million.

    Im not sure how I am being flippant, I'm holding judgement and waiting for the full investigation to unfold and fully expect there will be fines. You guys, on the other hand, are conducting a Kangaroo Court based on leaked info from people with clear agendas to a media outlet trying to sell to dummies like yourselves.

    $8 million, yep, it does say $8 million, the League CLub is so strong it can provide $8 million to the Football Club, which is the reason the Leagues CLub is there, and still report a $12million dollar profit. What's your point on that one?

    As to OLGR "Keeping an eye on developments" of course they are, that's their job, they keep an eye on ALL Licenced venues.

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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by Ice on Thu Mar 17, 2016 11:07 am

    @ryno_ wrote:

    Its on the record that they were discussing almost 600k worth of illegal third party deals. Fact - unless your suggesting the evidence is fabricated? If there was something else in the minutes where the CEO said "lol jokes guys, the last 15min of talks was all just a good chuckle", it would have been released by now. Putting your head in the sand because you dont like the source doesnt make the evidence go away.



    Because I couldnt be bothered adding them up back more then 5 years, if you have the time, feel free. Its on nrl.com. If your point is that other clubs do it aswell, thats both a ridiculous point (it doesnt excuse a thing) to make and an unintelligent one when you look at the extent to which each other club has been caught. My point was not no club has been caught more and punished more then Parra - 4 times in 5 years, more times then others and more fines then others - only 2 other teams have been stung more then 100k (over the 5 years)... Parra have chalked up more then 600k in fines. You cant honestly think that Eels being stung $620k and StG (for eg) less then $40k or Manly being fined less then 1% of the Eels fines is really comparable as "other clubs breaching aswell".



    Yes, but running a glorified RSL to a profit doesnt build up goodwill you can use to excuse past systematic exploitation and cheating - it seems redundant to mention the business success of the current admin when looking at past boards.



    I dont think anybody is suggesting the old crew be re-instated.

    This post is just a lot of bluster about how good the new board members are and how untrustworthy the media in general is. All reasonable and mostly correct points - but ultimately, what have they got to do with the price of tea in china?

    Did the Eels systematically and willingly cheat the salary cap, through paying past players and dodgy third party deals? It certainly seems like it. There hasnt been any evidence pointing to the contrary and a lot put forward in the affirmative. No amount of co-operation or goodwill from the current administration forgives that and they should be belted with fines, monetary and competition points.

    There is nothing on the record that says they we discussing Illegal Third Party deals. That is to imply the conversation went "Hey guys, how can we deliberately and illegally provide third party deals" NO such conversation was had. Based on all that I've seen, the conversations surrounded corporate hospitality to third parties and the viability of it, something all clubs do. Or is it there in the minutes is it. Hey guys, lets cheat the cap with TP Deals, and Beryl, make sure you get that in the minutes" Rightio, whatever you reckon.

    The bulk of the Eels penalty was for 1 serious and significant breach, Im not denying that. The others were piddling things like 2nd tier cap infringements et al. It was incompetence by previous board and management, plain and simple, not a systematic attempt my managers, players managers and players to cheat to keep a team together to win the premiership. Boats and brown paper bags and the players are apparently none the wiser, again, Rightio, whatever you reckon. It doesn't make the Eels plight any better or worse that it was incompetence from prior boards and CEO's, and it doesn't comfort me or make me any happier about it, it just is what it is.

    I don't get the "Glorified RSL" comment, or its relevance. The CEO of Parra Leagues and the Board he reports to have a clear record of success in uncovering serious governance issues and performance issues and turning them around, it absolutely should get them a level of goodwill and credibility where others have failed dismally previously. Does it mean the board will get the Football Club stuff right, NO of course not, prior performance is no indicator of future performance, but as I have always maintained, I'm prepared to see how all the evidence unfolds and see what happens going forward and I don't think throwing this board out straight away is in the best interests of the Club. Should clear serious, significant deliberate breaches sanctioned by this board be uncovered and proven, then sure, they should cop whatever consequences the decision makers deem appropriate, you'll get no argument from me, but the fact is you numpties simply don't have all the facts so your bleating absolutely lacks credibility.

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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by Guest on Thu Mar 17, 2016 11:23 am

    Innocent until proven guilty is something that comes to mind. Time will tell what the outcome is however if found guilty I hope they are punished appropriately.
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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by ryno_ on Thu Mar 17, 2016 11:38 am

    @Ice wrote:There is nothing on the record that says they we discussing Illegal Third Party deals.  That is to imply the conversation went "Hey guys, how can we deliberately and illegally provide third party deals"  NO such conversation was had. Based on all that I've seen, the conversations surrounded corporate hospitality to third parties and the viability of it, something all clubs do. Or is it there in the minutes is it.  Hey guys, lets cheat the cap with TP Deals, and Beryl, make sure you get that in the minutes"  Rightio, whatever you reckon.

    Incorrect. They may not have realised it was illegal, but its there.

    "The board noted that for 2014 there is in the order of $589k in TPA's (sic) plus 2 cars that are outstanding and need to be secured."

    It is against the rules for a club to compensate third parties for their association with a player.

    "servicing TPA providers accordingly with hospitality and player appearances"

    Again, it is against the rules for the clubs to offer incentives to third parties in return for sponsoring players.

    If you have proof that all clubs give third parties corporate hospitality in return for player sponsorship, please, lets see it. Ill wait.

    Why they captured this in (and then signed) the minutes is beyond me.

    @Ice wrote:The bulk of the Eels penalty was for 1 serious and significant breach, Im not denying that. The others were piddling things like 2nd tier cap infringements et al. It was incompetence by previous board and management, plain and simple, not a systematic attempt my managers, players managers and players to cheat to keep a team together to win the premiership.  Boats and brown paper bags and the players are apparently none the wiser, again, Rightio, whatever you reckon.  It doesn't make the Eels plight any better or worse that it was incompetence from prior boards and CEO's, and it doesn't comfort me or make me any happier about it, it just is what it is.

    The bulk (about 460k) may have come from one breach but the rest werent just "piddly" breaches - they were hit for 40k and 85k in the years before that. Hardly the small amounts other clubs sometimes (without the regularity of Parra) get hit with. Even if you take out the big hit of 460k, no club got fined more times then Parra in the last 5 years.

    @Ice wrote:I don't get the "Glorified RSL" comment, or its relevance.  The CEO of Parra Leagues and the Board he reports to have a clear record of success in uncovering serious governance issues and performance issues and turning them around, it absolutely should get them a level of goodwill and credibility where others have failed dismally previously.  Does it mean the board will get the Football Club stuff right, NO of course not, prior performance is no indicator of future performance, but as I have always maintained, I'm prepared to see how all the evidence unfolds and see what happens going forward and I don't think throwing this board out straight away is in the best interests of the Club.  Should clear serious, significant deliberate breaches sanctioned by this board be uncovered and proven, then sure, they should cop whatever consequences the decision makers deem appropriate, you'll get no argument from me, but the fact is you numpties simply don't have all the facts so your bleating absolutely lacks credibility.

    RE bolded: No, it shouldnt. The club did the illegal actions, they should cop the full penalties, regardless of the success or ability of the current administration. The current administration can be a board filled with saints - no level of goodwill they can work up excuses past actions.

    The fact is SOME evidence has come out and you are just putting your head in the sand and pretending it doesnt exist. If the meeting minutes where they talk about securing illegal payments/services arent enough proof that they were intentionally getting around the salary cap, then fuck me, youll never be convinced.
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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by No Worries on Thu Mar 17, 2016 11:52 am

    Bren wrote:Innocent until proven guilty is something that comes to mind. Time will tell what the outcome is however if found guilty I hope they are punished appropriately.

    They'e already admitted to being guilty that's why they got fined and avoided losing points by the skin of their teeth.

    I keep hearing time will tell, time has told.

    These "new" allegations are just the next level of rorting that has been uncovered

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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by Ice on Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:45 pm

    @ryno_ wrote:

    Incorrect. They may not have realised it was illegal, but its there.

    "The board noted that for 2014 there is in the order of $589k in TPA's (sic) plus 2 cars that are outstanding and need to be secured."

    It is against the rules for a club to compensate third parties for their association with a player.

    "servicing TPA providers accordingly with hospitality and player appearances"

    Again, it is against the rules for the clubs to offer incentives to third parties in return for sponsoring players.

    If you have proof that all clubs give third parties corporate hospitality in return for player sponsorship, please, lets see it. Ill wait.

    Why they captured this in (and then signed) the minutes is beyond me.



    The bulk (about 460k) may have come from one breach but the rest werent just "piddly" breaches - they were hit for 40k and 85k in the years before that. Hardly the small amounts other clubs sometimes (without the regularity of Parra) get hit with. Even if you take out the big hit of 460k, no club got fined more times then Parra in the last 5 years.



    RE bolded: No, it shouldnt. The club did the illegal actions, they should cop the full penalties, regardless of the success or ability of the current administration. The current administration can be a board filled with saints - no level of goodwill they can work up excuses past actions.

    The fact is SOME evidence has come out and you are just putting your head in the sand and pretending it doesnt exist. If the meeting minutes where they talk about securing illegal payments/services arent enough proof that they were intentionally getting around the salary cap, then fuck me, youll never be convinced.

    The board "Noted" that they needed to be secured? Fair enough, did they minute that THEY needed to secure them or did they just note that it needed to be happen?

    "servicing TPA providers accordingly with hospitality and player appearances"  Isn't that why people provide third party sponsorship, so they can get player appearances and the like???  Why else would they do it.  And only the Eels can service the appearance as that is who the player players for. I'd assume, given the player has a responsibility first and foremost to train and play, that if a Third Party wanted the player to make an appearance somewhere, that the Third Party would need to seek some sort of approval from the club so it didn't clash with the players other duties.  I honestly have no issue with that and if that is the worst of it then its a storm in a teacup and nothing ALL other clubs aren't doing.  I don't need to prove it to you, if you don't think it happens then its you who has their head in the sand.  

    Re the GoodWill stuff, I think we are arguing different things there.  I'm not saying the goodwill should come in the form of reduced sanctions on this board for indisrcetions of previous boards, I'm saying they have a track record of turning around the leagues club and that should buy them a bit of additional time in turning around the football club, but it shouldn't be a reduction in fines or anything like that.  That said, if any actions taken by Sharp and the current board warrant their dismissal, then I have no drama with that either after a full and comprehensive investigation.

    I'm not pretending anything doesn't exist, I've acknowledged stuff exists.  Your pretending that action should be taken before everything is fully investigated and you are making assumptions about guilt or otherwise without all the facts.

    I say lets see all the facts before we execute anyone.

    You say its done and dusted and what you've seen in the media is enough to hang the lot of them.

    I hope you're not a lawyer.

      Current date/time is Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:37 pm