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    State of Origin Game 2

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    Oz Sport Mad

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    Re: State of Origin Game 2

    Post by Oz Sport Mad on Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:27 pm

    @Dip wrote:It's a shame Cronulla have the bye next week. I could imagine NSWRL hastily changing their named team to give Cordner every chance to play, only to be ruled out after the weekend with Graham coming in, ala Ennis.

    I'm surprised they haven't gone to the effort of organising a token mid-season transfer to Manly (courtesy of Bozo), followed by a backflip prior to the June 30 deadline.....

    Pieman

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    Re: State of Origin Game 2

    Post by Pieman on Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:37 pm

    @Dip wrote:

    Loading - because he's a repeat offender. Just like someone who gets charged for robbery, second time they get done they get a bigger charge because they haven't corrected their problem. The onus is on the defender to correct their technique or actions.
    Carryover - it's like a suspended sentence. You won't get suspended for this as long as you keep a clean nose until your carryover is extinguished. Given that was only 13 games ago, I reckon that's fair enough.

    I think it makes perfect sense because I think repeat offenders should get penalised more. If say Adrian Morley or Josh Reynolds went and did a grade 1 high tackle or trip every week, why should they never get suspended?

    The difference is, a robbery is a pre planned action - most head high or what ever are just accidents.
    If it isnt enough to get you suspended at the time, then it shouldnt come back and be enough to combine with another incident to get you suspended.

    Pieman

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    Re: State of Origin Game 2

    Post by Pieman on Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:41 pm

    @Dip wrote:It's a shame Cronulla have the bye next week. I could imagine NSWRL hastily changing their named team to give Cordner every chance to play, only to be ruled out after the weekend with Graham coming in, ala Ennis.

    Or Lote

    Oz Sport Mad

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    Re: State of Origin Game 2

    Post by Oz Sport Mad on Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:54 pm

    @Pieman wrote:

    The difference is, a robbery is a pre planned action - most head high or what ever are just accidents.
    If it isnt enough to get you suspended at the time, then it shouldnt come back and be enough to combine with another incident to get you suspended.

    But that is the problem with the black and white system that all and sundry were desperate for.

    Personally I'd rather each incident and player be subjectively judged on what happened and what they have done in the past......but then everyone would be sooking about consistency again.

    Pieman

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    Re: State of Origin Game 2

    Post by Pieman on Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:08 pm

    If someone is a repeat offender, shouldnt the individual suspensions be enough of a punishment?
    If someone does something that is not enough to get them suspended - then good.
    I just disgree with someone doing a series of little thing that arent quite enough to get you suspended on their own - adding up to a suspension later down the track. On field penalties, send offs and sin-bins should be enough.

    No Worries
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    Re: State of Origin Game 2

    Post by No Worries on Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:13 pm

    @Dip wrote:
    Edit: I do think that suspending someone for origin or a finals match on the same basis as for club matches is harsh, because they're not equal matches. I don't know what the best answer is, but I wouldn't mind it if you needed say 150 points to miss a finals, origin or test match, and have them as reducing carry over points so it is like a suspended sentence for low range incidents.

    You do have the answer. It's that easy. 150 points for a rep or final game. The charge takes you to 120 points you play the rep/origin and miss the next club/regular season game.

    Pieman

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    Re: State of Origin Game 2

    Post by Pieman on Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:17 pm

    I dont understand how you can get suspended playing for totally different team...

    Its a simple solution.
    If you get suspended playing for cronulla, you miss cronulla games.
    If you get suspended playing for rep games, you miss rep games.


    Last edited by Pieman on Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:17 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Obviously not that simple, but its more fair IMO)

    No Worries
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    Re: State of Origin Game 2

    Post by No Worries on Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:26 pm

    @Pieman wrote:I dont understand how you can get suspended playing for totally different team...

    Its a simple solution.
    If you get suspended playing for cronulla, you miss cronulla games.
    If you get suspended playing for rep games, you miss rep games.

    There's been some absolute shockers at international level though. Hardly fair a bloke fronts up week in week out but misses the next 4 years or internationals. A lot of players wouldn't play enough internationals to cover their suspension.

    Dip

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    Re: State of Origin Game 2

    Post by Dip on Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:55 pm

    Your Name wrote:

    There's been some absolute shockers at international level though. Hardly fair a bloke fronts up week in week out but misses the next 4 years or internationals.  A lot of players wouldn't play enough internationals to cover their suspension.

    Plus, if Radradra got suspended in his last game for Fiji, what game would he miss. Fiji's next test or Australia's next test. And how about City/Country or the All-Stars game. You wouldn't want someone to break someone's jaw in City v Country and effectively not have them penalised at all because next year when they improve from 4th string rep player to 3rd string rep player they were going to pull out of the match anyway.

    Pieman

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    Re: State of Origin Game 2

    Post by Pieman on Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:00 pm

    @Dip wrote:

    Plus, if Radradra got suspended in his last game for Fiji, what game would he miss. Fiji's next test or Australia's next test. And how about City/Country or the All-Stars game. You wouldn't want someone to break someone's jaw in City v Country and effectively not have them penalised at all because next year when they improve from 4th string rep player to 3rd string rep player they were going to pull out of the match anyway.

    As I said, its obviously not that simple - but my argument is why should the club be punished when they do something playing in a rep game?
    I dont see how its fair to the clubs. "He took someones head off playing for eg QLD, and he cant play for us for 2 weeks, but will be available again to play for QLD by next game).

    Maybe fines need to come in if they get done in a rep game?

    (also, pretty sure CvC is being scrapped from next year or the year after)

    Oz Sport Mad

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    Re: State of Origin Game 2

    Post by Oz Sport Mad on Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:14 pm

    @Pieman wrote:

    As I said, its obviously not that simple - but my argument is why should the club be punished when they do something playing in a rep game?
    I dont see how its fair to the clubs. "He took someones head off playing for eg QLD, and he cant play for us for 2 weeks, but will be available again to play for QLD by next game).

    Maybe fines need to come in if they get done in a rep game?

    (also, pretty sure CvC is being scrapped from next year or the year after)

    In the same way I don't have a problem with a club player being injured during Origin, I don't have a problem with them being suspended.

    The benefits still outweigh the negatives.

    Pieman

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    Re: State of Origin Game 2

    Post by Pieman on Tue Jun 14, 2016 5:03 pm

    @Oz Sport Mad wrote:

    In the same way I don't have a problem with a club player being injured during Origin, I don't have a problem with them being suspended.

    The benefits still outweigh the negatives.

    Totally different argument, but nice to know your feelings on blokes being injured playing rep Clap

    Ice

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    Re: State of Origin Game 2

    Post by Ice on Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:28 pm

    Your Name wrote:

    You do have the answer. It's that easy. 150 points for a rep or final game. The charge takes you to 120 points you play the rep/origin and miss the next club/regular season game.

    Agreed, absolutely this is the answer, it makes perfect sense.

    Ice

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    Re: State of Origin Game 2

    Post by Ice on Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:53 am

    @Dip wrote:It's unlucky for him, but you guys are grasping at straws. It didn't bounce off the ball, and while JT was low, it was because he was stepping as Graham rushed out of the defensive line. It wasn't because he slipped or fell just before the tackle. Graham leaves his feet as he is making the tackle and gets him right on the neck and chin.

    I'm comfortable that it was no more than a grade 1, which would have got him off had he had no carry over or loading (only needed to have no loading or no carryover, but he had both). That's not a perfect system, but I have no problems with repeat offenders getting bigger penalties, and that it what the loading and carry over does.

    http://www.foxsports.com.au/video/league/nrl/grahams-costly-high-hit!528637

    Edit: I do think that suspending someone for origin or a finals match on the same basis as for club matches is harsh, because they're not equal matches. I don't know what the best answer is, but I wouldn't mind it if you needed say 150 points to miss a finals, origin or test match, and have them as reducing carry over points so it is like a suspended sentence for low range incidents.

    Not really grasping at straws. Thurston is carrying the ball high in his right hand and puts his left arm up in front of him and Graham's arm clearly makes contact with that left arm first, maybe not so much the ball in the right arm, and slides up the left arm over his hand, which is in front of his face and onto his head. The slip, the step, the arm where all contributing factors. That said, I understand how it may cop the lowest end of a careless grading, but given the lack of intent I'm pretty sure if they challenge it he will get off. It's simply not a tackle that should see a guy miss an Origin, probably not even a week of club football.


    dasherhalo

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    Re: State of Origin Game 2

    Post by dasherhalo on Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:59 am

    The points idea has been bandied about before, and I really like it. It's biggest drawback, iirc previous discussions correctly, is the fear that rep coaches will manipulated the system by naming a player they've got no intention of playing, just to help out a favoured individual / team / coach etc.

    Now, that's valid, and it WOULD happen, and the ensuing uproar would be the forum-melting bitch-fest we can all imagine, but I always like to look for a reason for it to happen, not a reason NOT for it to happen, so I'd like to see it implemented.

    However: the NRL is reactionary (at best!), so the real issue becomes "how many people care about it, and how many people feel STRONGLY about it). And the clincher: "Is anyone writing about it?"

    Current shenanigans like Lote-gate and so forth are treated by the media with a half-grin and a wink, and I believe that's the major issue. It's not a high profile issue, and the NRL will never be ahead of an issue before Crash or Weidler write about it.



    dasherhalo

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    Re: State of Origin Game 2

    Post by dasherhalo on Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:01 am


    It's also a good opportunity to tacitly re-instate Australian games as the pinnacle of the sport, not State of Origin, but doing something like:

    Australian / international games: 200 points
    SoO: 150 points
    Other (CvC, etc): 130 points


    Dip

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    Re: State of Origin Game 2

    Post by Dip on Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:28 am

    @Ice wrote:

    That said, I understand how it may cop the lowest end of a careless grading, but given the lack of intent I'm pretty sure if they challenge it he will get off.


    No one's saying there was any intent. That's why it didn't carry an intentional charge, or even reckless for that matter.


    Last edited by Dip on Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:31 am; edited 1 time in total

    Dip

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    Re: State of Origin Game 2

    Post by Dip on Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:30 am

    For reference, Justin Hunt's coat hanger of Moses Mbye earlier this year received a grade 2 (125 points before early guilty plea discount, 93 after).

    leaguegod

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    Re: State of Origin Game 2

    Post by leaguegod on Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:28 am

    i don't think the amount of points should differ from game to game


    i do think that we unlike most of the elite sports codes look to suspend players for minor offenses far to often.

    People getting suspended for careless low grade high tackles, tapping a ref on the shoulder, throwing a fucking water bottle etc is stupid. i'd like fines to replace points for really minor offenses, at least for say 1 time per 12 month period per player



    but on the flip side, nathan brown can stomp on a guy one week, ake head contact incredibly late on a kicker the next week and not miss a fucking game


    Bren
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    Re: State of Origin Game 2

    Post by Bren on Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:46 am

    If Nathan Brown misses a game who coaches the Knights? To be fair that shit bag of a side plays like they dont have a coach anyway lol!

      Current date/time is Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:43 pm