Cronk/Pearce Watch

Dammit Ryno - making me agree with Pieman??

Just because there's not many better than them doesn't make them "quality". Allan Langer was a quality half. Andrew Johns was a quality half. Just because there aren't many halves above him does NOT make Mbye a "quality half".

dasherhalo wrote:Dammit Ryno - making me agree with Pieman??

Just because there's not many better than them doesn't make them "quality". Allan Langer was a quality half. Andrew Johns was a quality half. Just because there aren't many halves above him does NOT make Mbye a "quality half".

Whoa whoa whoa.

I think we have very different definitions of "quality" if the best superlative you can give to Langer or Johns is "quality".

When I say "Quality", I mean they are above a replacement level half. Not that they should be mentioned in the same breath as a fucking immortal.

And as an "above-replacement-level-but-not-near-the-top-tier-player" (jesus, thats a bit wordy, lets just use single descriptor... how about "quality"), the market has placed their price tag at around about 750k.

Pieman wrote:The only half worth that kind of money is Norman and even he is still somewhat unproven.

The market disagrees with you. Strongly.

Since we are measuring half backs dicks, what's Cleary on ? Gould was on BSB this morning saying they aren't chasing him for a contract that he's still young with a lot to learn, blah blah, want him to enjoy his football.

No Worries wrote:Since we are measuring half backs dicks, what's Cleary on ? Gould was on BSB this morning saying they aren't chasing him for a contract that he's still young with a lot to learn, blah blah, want him to enjoy his football.

Depends if he's on the contract he signed when he was 16 or if he's on a new one. If Ash Taylor is on a million, Cleary would be worth every penny of that.

ryno_ wrote:

Depends if he's on the contract he signed when he was 16 or if he's on a new one. If Ash Taylor is on a million, Cleary would be worth every penny of that.

Gus did say he had 2 years to run, so you would think the latter but at 19 with 1 breakout year under his belt I'd be guessing more like 400-500

Cleary will link with his dad next contract, lock it in.

ryno_ wrote:

Whoa whoa whoa.

I think we have very different definitions of "quality" if the best superlative you can give to Langer or Johns is "quality".

When I say "Quality", I mean they are above a replacement level half. Not that they should be mentioned in the same breath as a fucking immortal.

And as an "above-replacement-level-but-not-near-the-top-tier-player" (jesus, thats a bit wordy, lets just use single descriptor... how about "quality"), the market has placed their price tag at around about 750k.

So you are now saying that Keary/Norman/Mbye/Reynolds are "above replacement level but not near the top tier player" level? Interesting.
Ryno: Gets proven wrong via a "quality" argument so changes the meaning of a word, which in turn fucks his argument over even more.

As I said, Norman is the only one of those guys who actually deserves that kind of cash - and its pretty hard to dispute that he is still somewhat unproven. Norman is just about an elite half, the rest show glimpses every now and then but are average to slightly above average players IMO.

If I were talking about - eg. Luke Brooks - I would never use the term "quality" to describe him as a halfback. Same with Mbye. Same with Reynolds on most days. Luke Brooks (throughout his career so far, he may very well get better) has been one of the worst consistent starters at halfback in the league for the last few years IMO. He is most certainly ARLBNNTTTP as you so beautifully put it. You could swich Brooks with Mbye too if you wanted. No one is disputing their footy ability but their ability to consistently play well at an NRL level is shocking.

As far as cleary - his next deal will be at a 800- 1million you would think. He is a more complete halfback than the Ben Hunts, Mitch Pearces, Josh Reynolds of the world already and is so much younger than them that it is scary. You would think that he would sign a fairly heavily back ended deal considering how young he is. He has still nearly played 50 FG games tho too. Crazy, hope he keeps going the way he has been.

Pieman wrote:
So you are now saying that Keary/Norman/Mbye/Reynolds are "above replacement level but not near the top tier player" level? Interesting.
Ryno: Gets proven wrong via a "quality" argument so changes the meaning of a word, which in turn fucks his argument over even more.

Absolutely. Are you saying those 4 players are not better then replacement level?

And I apologise for not knowing that rating a player as "quality" meant they were in the immortal conversation. As I explained, I took a rating of "quality" to mean somewhere between replacement level and being nowhere near top tier. I never said any of those guys were superstars.

Pieman wrote:the rest show glimpses every now and then but are average to slightly above average players IMO.

Oh good. You agree with me. Fortunately, the market says that the price for a player of that caliber is ~$750k. You can argue til you're blue in the crust about it being overpaid, but thats the going rate for a half above-replacement-level-but-not-near-the-top-tier-player - or, quality.

ryno_ wrote:

The market disagrees with you. Strongly.

I couldnt give a fuck less about what you or the market say.

The difference between what a player gets paid and what he is worth is not always a direct correlation. If it was, Thurston would be on 4 million a season. Halves get paid well, good on them. They most certainly all arent worth it. Just like the fibro 1 bed shack in Newtown with a market value of 1.9mil - its not worth it but thats what someone will pay to get it.

ryno_ wrote:

Absolutely. Are you saying those 4 players are not better then replacement level?

And I apologise for not knowing that rating a player as "quality" meant they were in the immortal conversation. As I explained, I took a rating of "quality" to mean somewhere between replacement level and being nowhere near top tier. I never said any of those guys were superstars.



Oh good. You agree with me. Fortunately, the market says that the price for a player of that caliber is ~$750k. You can argue til you're blue in the crust about it being overpaid, but thats the going rate for a half above-replacement-level-but-not-near-the-top-tier-player - or, quality.

It's arguable that as a halfback, Mbye isnt even a at the replacement level - and to me it is fucking crazy that someone like Mbye or Reynolds (money wise) can even be spoken about as being the same as Norman or even Pearce up until a few weeks ago. Brooks has been one of the worst starting halfbacks in the league.

Norman is not thurston or morgan - but he is about as elite as it gets without a rep jersey.
Your apology is accepted
The argument is absolutely that they arent worth that kind of money - you agree with me it seems - but thats what they get paid.
Good to see we have come to an agreement that they arent worth that kind of money, even if they get paid it.

Something is ONLY ever worth what someone is willing to pay. Nobody is willing to pay Thurston 4 million, so he isnt worth that. Guys on $750k are worth that? Is it value for money? I wouldn't say it is, are some overpaid, I'd argue yes, but it is there worth.

semantics over the wording mate..

pretty clear that even though some guys get paid it they dont deserve it. Whether you want to use the term value for money, worth, return on investment is irrelevant. Sure something is worth what you paid for it sure, but sometimes you get ripped off.

Moses mbye is most certainly not worth the same amount of money as Norman.

I get your point, and tend to agree, I think RYNOs point is the market doesn't, which I also agree with.

Foxsports reporting Crichton to the Roosters in 2019 has been done.

Ice wrote:I get your point, and tend to agree, I think RYNOs point is the market doesn't, which I also agree with.

yeah for sure, i agree that the market doesnt. The market is ridiculous tho

has the roosters been confirmed for crichton?
I thought it said his departure from souths is confirmed but it didnt say a club. I mean, yeah, its the roosters but there could just be a faint glimmer of hope if the roosters havent been announced.

fucking strapped for cash the roosters are lol

ah just saw fox sports reporting the roosters

At least it's a Bondi Junior (as I've seen him referred to as) they've signed. And by Bondi junior, I mean grew up in the bush, did a couple of years boarding school in Sydney playing Union, before playing few months for the Roosters U20's before moving to Souths.

Ice wrote:Creighton is a special to go to the Roosters now. Apparently three clubs in the running. Souths, Sharks and Roosters and Creighton has said money isn't everything (yeah right) and that whoever presents the best opportunity for him to p,at for NSW and Aus will get the gig, so that is Roosters for sure out of those three.

And so it was. Will line up inthe backrow for NSW this year also ahead of his move to Roosters in 2019.

Honestly, I can see this possibly leading to Cordner heading to Newie. Would seem a strange move, but he is still a Newie junior and is still super close to Pearce and Watson. Think he might see 2018 as a great opportunity to get a win with Roosters then be a part of the Newcastle rebirth and get a big contract there.

Interesting as to how hard Roosters will go to keep him. He is after all just a backrower, hardly a franchise player you want to get in a bidding war for.

Disagree Ice.
He is the captain of the club, captain of NSW and prob the next captain of australia and the best back rower in the game. I reckon he is clearly the kind of player you build a forward pack around and teams will pay a fortune for him.

I agree, it will be very interesting to see how hard they try and keep him considering they now have Crichton lined up, Matterson looking like he will be a pretty good back rower, Aubesson for the next few years and so on.

The thing with Cordner going to newcastle is that there is already a plethora of good young back rowers there. I guess if dont re-sign buhrer next season - there is pretty much his back row spot (even though I think buhrer will start games at hooker). Geez I wish we didnt sign Guerra for 3 years.

On a side note - I think the sharks will be dogshit in a year or two. Too much cash tied up in Dugan. Gallen and Lewis on their last Legs. Would shock me if they didnt go hard after cordner for 2019. They have missed out on a fair few big names recently and if Moylan doesnt play well, Townsend isnt going to carry a side. As we have seen as well, Holmes is a gun winger but isnt all that much of a fullback yet. I would honestly prefer Dugan at 1 over him, and would def take Moylan at 1 over him. Classy winger tho.