Home
ChewieIt was only until ET mentioned it that I worked out that Papa is a lady 
NRLFF Survivor Season 2 - Part 3
Chewie- Fanatic
- Posts : 17635
Reputation : 12410
Join date : 2016-02-03
Location : Top of the FOG
easytiger- Moderator
- NRL FF Survivor Champion : 2022
Posts : 4528
Reputation : 5637
Join date : 2020-01-27
Location : The Kingdom of the Lord of the Byes
RandomSil - Who was the biggest threat to your game, and how did you get them out?
It seems a bit weird to suggest someone outside the jury, but looking back, I'd have to say Welshy.
I think at heart, we're both pretty loyal people, we value loyalty and we want to give loyalty, which was a positive. But Welshy's leadership style was very much at odds with mine.
When Chucky went my role shifted from a player in a strong alliance with some very influential players, to an otherwise fairly quiet guy leading an alliance.
One of the most significant changes in our tribe was that some of the players (Stu & Papa) were suddenly a lot more recognised and valued.
I was always keen to hear what players in my alliance thought first before letting them know where I wanted to go with things. I wanted them to be an active part of my alliance - the more ownership they had, the more investment they had, the less likely they would want to tank their own ship.
While that sounds like good gameplay, it is also more inclusive and provides a much more positive experience for everyone.
That wasn't Welshy's style. He was more of a velvet glove, iron fist approach. If you were in, you were in, but if you were out, you would be under no illusion of your place at the bottom.
I became quickly aware of that by reading through the Season one thread. It was one of the reasons it was essential to weaken him by removing Chucky.
If I had acted as Welshy's right-hand man, then it would've damaged my social game. If Welshy had made it to the merge outside of my alliance then he had enough connections (including yourself) to get the numbers to cause damage, and he would've cut through us mercilessly. Removing him became vital - hence why I tanked a challenge, and how he went is discussed in my answer to Moanaman.
It seems a bit weird to suggest someone outside the jury, but looking back, I'd have to say Welshy.
I think at heart, we're both pretty loyal people, we value loyalty and we want to give loyalty, which was a positive. But Welshy's leadership style was very much at odds with mine.
When Chucky went my role shifted from a player in a strong alliance with some very influential players, to an otherwise fairly quiet guy leading an alliance.
One of the most significant changes in our tribe was that some of the players (Stu & Papa) were suddenly a lot more recognised and valued.
I was always keen to hear what players in my alliance thought first before letting them know where I wanted to go with things. I wanted them to be an active part of my alliance - the more ownership they had, the more investment they had, the less likely they would want to tank their own ship.
While that sounds like good gameplay, it is also more inclusive and provides a much more positive experience for everyone.
That wasn't Welshy's style. He was more of a velvet glove, iron fist approach. If you were in, you were in, but if you were out, you would be under no illusion of your place at the bottom.
I became quickly aware of that by reading through the Season one thread. It was one of the reasons it was essential to weaken him by removing Chucky.
If I had acted as Welshy's right-hand man, then it would've damaged my social game. If Welshy had made it to the merge outside of my alliance then he had enough connections (including yourself) to get the numbers to cause damage, and he would've cut through us mercilessly. Removing him became vital - hence why I tanked a challenge, and how he went is discussed in my answer to Moanaman.
easytiger- Moderator
- NRL FF Survivor Champion : 2022
Posts : 4528
Reputation : 5637
Join date : 2020-01-27
Location : The Kingdom of the Lord of the Byes
Chewie wrote:It was only until ET mentioned it that I worked out that Papa is a lady
Just wait till you discover that one of us isn't even a real person, but a spectral apparition that can only communicate via this specific forum
Moanaman- Posts : 3294
Reputation : 2940
Join date : 2020-01-27
Location : Up the Wahs!
Great response Easy, allow me to retort....
I made a mistake, after we (Random, Rabbits and I) found out about L-Jimmy et all plans to take out Cunbert we took them out methodically. My mistake was not listening to Rabbits and voting out Pookus instead of JM. That was a bad move on my part and I realized that our game was over after that. From there on in I was firmly focused on winding people up as much as I could knowing there was no chance of us winning. It seems to have worked.
Congratulations on your game, you deserve to be here and you have a 50% chance of getting my vote.
I made a mistake, after we (Random, Rabbits and I) found out about L-Jimmy et all plans to take out Cunbert we took them out methodically. My mistake was not listening to Rabbits and voting out Pookus instead of JM. That was a bad move on my part and I realized that our game was over after that. From there on in I was firmly focused on winding people up as much as I could knowing there was no chance of us winning. It seems to have worked.
Congratulations on your game, you deserve to be here and you have a 50% chance of getting my vote.
Milchcow- Moderator
- Posts : 25230
Reputation : 17657
Join date : 2015-07-31
ET
Thanks for finally unloading on someone in the tribal questions.
Too much of this thread has been sucking everyone off about how every decision was the hardest in the game and how we are full of nothing but loves and kisses. Nice to see at at least 1 point you were happy to vote someone out.
StuDogg101- Posts : 4352
Reputation : 1851
Join date : 2015-09-30
Location : Christchurch, NZ
Jumping Marlin wrote:TeethEater: Congrats on making it to the end, and wonderfully played from both of you. I am not sure I can think of a question as everything was so comprehensively covered in your final statements. Not that I ever wanted it to happen, but I constantly wondered why ET and B/L were not targeted with votes, but JM's explanation covers that base for your part in that, JM.
I have a meaningless sense of wonder about who ET would have taken to the final two if he'd won that final challenge, but that's really quite trivial and speculative, so I don't need it to be answered.
Apologies, just typed out and deleted a whole paragraph asking JM about my dismissal from the game, but I think I concluded that you voted with B/L, ET and myself that week? Sorry guys, got such a rubbish memory. My question was, if you did assist in my dismissal, JM, I was curious as to why you did not vote with B/L and ET that week? But it was Papa and Stu, wasn't it?
I guess I never had much clarity about the whole situation, obviously, and that'd be the only thing I wondered about.
And that's about it. Sorry ET, nothing separate for you as you did very honestly cover anything I could think of!
Good luck, fellas, and may be the best wilderbeast win!
Hey Teeth,
Thanks for your generous comments.
You have landed on the right conclusion, I voted with you the night you went home. So Papa and Stu did the dirty.
Ok so in my/our defence, our path to the final needed something to happen and at this juncture it appeared like the best option. What we didn't count on was the ET/BL/JM triumvirate. I knew if I was sitting in the final 2 there were very few people I could legitimately beat (if any) without trying some things on the home stretch. I reached out to Papa and we agreed our best interests were to vote together, and determine week by week who that would be for. I had hitched my wagon to the ET/BL train long before, and as it turns out that continuing to do so was the incorrect decision post merge.
Hindsight and everything, but when it was put to me to vote one of the three it felt like the right decision, especially with idols still in play. I wanted to be as close to 100% sure the person I voted for was going home that week. And to protect what I thought was the alliance with ET and BL, AND stay true to the convo I had had with Papa, Teeth was the result.
Chewie- Fanatic
- Posts : 17635
Reputation : 12410
Join date : 2016-02-03
Location : Top of the FOG
easytiger wrote:
Just wait till you discover that one of us isn't even a real person, but a spectral apparition that can only communicate via this specific forum
Sidious is back again!?
Chewie- Fanatic
- Posts : 17635
Reputation : 12410
Join date : 2016-02-03
Location : Top of the FOG
Welshy, Random, Chucky and Milch were some of my allies... bummer that most of them got eliminated before merge
Rabbits21- Fanatic
- Posts : 13532
Reputation : 5967
Join date : 2019-07-24
I already voted sent it to you last night.FalconSloth wrote:Those are some great answers. The last of the questions have been sent through and I will accept votes once they have been answered
B/L- Posts : 3327
Reputation : 2658
Join date : 2016-01-12
StuDogg101 wrote:
Ok so in my/our defence, our path to the final needed something to happen and at this juncture it appeared like the best option. What we didn't count on was the ET/BL/JM triumvirate. I knew if I was sitting in the final 2 there were very few people I could legitimately beat (if any) without trying some things on the home stretch. I reached out to Papa and we agreed our best interests were to vote together, and determine week by week who that would be for. I had hitched my wagon to the ET/BL train long before, and as it turns out that continuing to do so was the incorrect decision post merge.
Hindsight and everything, but when it was put to me to vote one of the three it felt like the right decision, especially with idols still in play. I wanted to be as close to 100% sure the person I voted for was going home that week. And to protect what I thought was the alliance with ET and BL, AND stay true to the convo I had had with Papa, Teeth was the result.
I will say that I had no idea who I was going to be loyal with towards the end apart from ET after wolfie and teeth got voted out. JM was the last one to the party so even though I respected him,.we might have let him go earlier...maybe not with ET being sneaky haha. But JM staying loyal when you papa jumped ship was what made it an easy decision to take him to the final 3 with us. Rabbits had continually told me JM couldn't be trusted so that was stuck in the back of my head but it turned out that he was the one who could be most trusted. In hindsight though I said to ET at the time that the move by you and papa was the right move and you guys probably should have kept going against us and things might have been different but ET was able to get you back on side and the rest was history.
Great fun by all however.
Moana was ny favourite player In the game purely because he made it interesting. Annoying as fuck but every game needs a villain. The funniest part of the game for me was when I accidently sent my vote to monana voting himout instead of sending It to FS. I owned the move but it was a total balls up on my end lol.
B/L- Posts : 3327
Reputation : 2658
Join date : 2016-01-12
Chewie wrote:Welshy, Random, Chucky and Milch were some of my allies... bummer that most of them got eliminated before merge
Chucky and eventually welshy went mainly because you sent a pm to welshy with your plans both wolfie and I thought we would be working with you post merge but when we were left out of the pm we knew we had to act to blow up that potential alliance and it all went from there.
Welshy was easily leader of the group early on but after the moves were made ET and I rose up and if anything ET took over from there and stayed up on top. JM did a great job going from one of the guys at the bottom to navigating his way easily to final 3.
StuDogg101- Posts : 4352
Reputation : 1851
Join date : 2015-09-30
Location : Christchurch, NZ
B/L wrote:
I will say that I had no idea who I was going to be loyal with towards the end apart from ET after wolfie and teeth got voted out. JM was the last one to the party so even though I respected him,.we might have let him go earlier...maybe not with ET being sneaky haha. But JM staying loyal when you papa jumped ship was what made it an easy decision to take him to the final 3 with us. Rabbits had continually told me JM couldn't be trusted so that was stuck in the back of my head but it turned out that he was the one who could be most trusted. In hindsight though I said to ET at the time that the move by you and papa was the right move and you guys probably should have kept going against us and things might have been different but ET was able to get you back on side and the rest was history.
Great fun by all however.
Moana was ny favourite player In the game purely because he made it interesting. Annoying as fuck but every game needs a villain. The funniest part of the game for me was when I accidently sent my vote to monana voting himout instead of sending It to FS. I owned the move but it was a total balls up on my end lol.
Totally fair enough, Papa and I thought JM was a swing vote, but once again in hindsight it was obvious he was with you guys cuz he never wavered. Which to his credit worked a charm. I have no regrets though, I had to try something or be happy with at best second place. Noone wins coat-tailing the whole way.
Funny you should say that. On two separate occasions I posted one of my challenge answers on here instead of in PM, and also posted a vote here once too. Fail. Have got good at fast deletes though
easytiger- Moderator
- NRL FF Survivor Champion : 2022
Posts : 4528
Reputation : 5637
Join date : 2020-01-27
Location : The Kingdom of the Lord of the Byes
StuDogg101:
1 At what point did you feel like you were safe in this game, like you could sit back and know you had made it to the end?
I strongly felt that I had would make it to the end when we voted out Papa.
It was just a question of the road to the final 3.
It didn't feel like I could sit back and enjoy it, I had to vote off people that had chosen to work with me.
I will finally sit back and enjoy it once I've answered these last few questions.
StuDogg101:
2. What do you think your biggest play was this season?
Do you feel like it was almost too easy post merge once the majority of your alliance made it?
It's a split between Welshy and Cunbert.
The Welshy blindside involved so many moving parts, everything had to work seemlessly.
It was a difficult vote for B/L as he had a friendship with Welshy beyond the confines of the forum - I owned it.
It was my first big play.
As you will know, some players already felt intimidated by Welshy. If anything had gone wrong it would've been ugly. It changed the direction of the game.
Getting Cunbert onside to remove Papa's last big play was huge in a different way. Papa could've had you and Cunbert vote with her - you both had immunity, there was an opportunity to swing the game.
You said you weren't prepared to vote me out, so we get a 3-3 tie and probably go to paper/scissors/rock, JM or B/L go home. B/L had a relationship with Papa, so I'm guessing probably JM goes.
To me Survivor has two stages.
Stage one is Pre-merge where you try to setup numbers in your favour through relationships and winning challenges.
Then Stage two happens at the merge where the game begins.
I would say 90% of the hard work was post-merge.
Counting back from the Jury;
The first Jury tribal vote, I was on the chopping block and we couldn't split the vote.
The second & third we had to split the votes due to idols in play - that means working out exactly who needs to vote for whom, who could switch, what would that mean.
Vote splits were always complicated and never without risk - idols in play removed any comfort a numbers advantage gave.
The fourth & fifth came in a double vote where an idol was likely to come into play. It necessitated voting out an ally (Rabbits) and trying to keep quiet the other vote (it was not kept quiet). Wolfie gone, a big blow.
The sixth should've gone well. I'd said just enough and left just enough unsaid to imply the wrong target and an idol was wasted. But, you flipped at the last minute, so - Teeth went home. More damage to my alliance.
The seventh I had to get you back with us, and vote for someone I'd enjoyed playing this game with. Chewie went home.
The eighth & ninth - I've covered well. Papa & Cunbert go.
The tenth - It's you or JM. It would've been a much harder decision if you hadn't voted Teeth, but I understand why you did.
There's nothing in there that was easy, if I sat back and coasted for any of those votes, I think we'd have a different final 2.
StuDogg101:
3. Do you have any regrets/things you would do differently? Hard to argue with whatever got you to the final two but there might be something. I think that you and JM complimented each other well, as you could put yourself out there and get things done while he played in the background.
Do you have any regrets/things you would do differently?
I regret things about the nature of Survivor, but it's also the nature of the beast. I'd more say there were moments that I lament where I have to accept my role in those moments.
I made the best decisions I could with the resources (primarily information and time) that I had - so I don't think I'd do anything too differently without having the benefit of hindsight.
B/L and I complimented each other well.
JM and I have a lot of respect for each other, but I don't see my game as especially contingent on his role in it.
He was incredibly loyal and trustworthy, which is a precious commodity in Survivor - but I also had that with Wolfie and Teeth.
It could've also been you or Papa if that's how you'd decided to play it.
It might have even been Chewie or Cunbert if they didn't come as a pair.
In Survivor, you depend on your relationships - if you look at any point from the merge onwards and withdraw any one of my relationships, things start to get shaky.
But that's the key as well. You don't let shaky - it's seldom contingent on one player, it's contingent on many - so every week you reinforce, observe the weaknesses of your deck of cards, restrengthen if you can, and cut them loose if you can't.
1 At what point did you feel like you were safe in this game, like you could sit back and know you had made it to the end?
I strongly felt that I had would make it to the end when we voted out Papa.
It was just a question of the road to the final 3.
It didn't feel like I could sit back and enjoy it, I had to vote off people that had chosen to work with me.
I will finally sit back and enjoy it once I've answered these last few questions.
StuDogg101:
2. What do you think your biggest play was this season?
Do you feel like it was almost too easy post merge once the majority of your alliance made it?
It's a split between Welshy and Cunbert.
The Welshy blindside involved so many moving parts, everything had to work seemlessly.
It was a difficult vote for B/L as he had a friendship with Welshy beyond the confines of the forum - I owned it.
It was my first big play.
As you will know, some players already felt intimidated by Welshy. If anything had gone wrong it would've been ugly. It changed the direction of the game.
Getting Cunbert onside to remove Papa's last big play was huge in a different way. Papa could've had you and Cunbert vote with her - you both had immunity, there was an opportunity to swing the game.
You said you weren't prepared to vote me out, so we get a 3-3 tie and probably go to paper/scissors/rock, JM or B/L go home. B/L had a relationship with Papa, so I'm guessing probably JM goes.
To me Survivor has two stages.
Stage one is Pre-merge where you try to setup numbers in your favour through relationships and winning challenges.
Then Stage two happens at the merge where the game begins.
I would say 90% of the hard work was post-merge.
Counting back from the Jury;
The first Jury tribal vote, I was on the chopping block and we couldn't split the vote.
The second & third we had to split the votes due to idols in play - that means working out exactly who needs to vote for whom, who could switch, what would that mean.
Vote splits were always complicated and never without risk - idols in play removed any comfort a numbers advantage gave.
The fourth & fifth came in a double vote where an idol was likely to come into play. It necessitated voting out an ally (Rabbits) and trying to keep quiet the other vote (it was not kept quiet). Wolfie gone, a big blow.
The sixth should've gone well. I'd said just enough and left just enough unsaid to imply the wrong target and an idol was wasted. But, you flipped at the last minute, so - Teeth went home. More damage to my alliance.
The seventh I had to get you back with us, and vote for someone I'd enjoyed playing this game with. Chewie went home.
The eighth & ninth - I've covered well. Papa & Cunbert go.
The tenth - It's you or JM. It would've been a much harder decision if you hadn't voted Teeth, but I understand why you did.
There's nothing in there that was easy, if I sat back and coasted for any of those votes, I think we'd have a different final 2.
StuDogg101:
3. Do you have any regrets/things you would do differently? Hard to argue with whatever got you to the final two but there might be something. I think that you and JM complimented each other well, as you could put yourself out there and get things done while he played in the background.
Do you have any regrets/things you would do differently?
I regret things about the nature of Survivor, but it's also the nature of the beast. I'd more say there were moments that I lament where I have to accept my role in those moments.
I made the best decisions I could with the resources (primarily information and time) that I had - so I don't think I'd do anything too differently without having the benefit of hindsight.
B/L and I complimented each other well.
JM and I have a lot of respect for each other, but I don't see my game as especially contingent on his role in it.
He was incredibly loyal and trustworthy, which is a precious commodity in Survivor - but I also had that with Wolfie and Teeth.
It could've also been you or Papa if that's how you'd decided to play it.
It might have even been Chewie or Cunbert if they didn't come as a pair.
In Survivor, you depend on your relationships - if you look at any point from the merge onwards and withdraw any one of my relationships, things start to get shaky.
But that's the key as well. You don't let shaky - it's seldom contingent on one player, it's contingent on many - so every week you reinforce, observe the weaknesses of your deck of cards, restrengthen if you can, and cut them loose if you can't.
easytiger- Moderator
- NRL FF Survivor Champion : 2022
Posts : 4528
Reputation : 5637
Join date : 2020-01-27
Location : The Kingdom of the Lord of the Byes
TeethEater:
Congrats on making it to the end, and wonderfully played from both of you. I am not sure I can think of a question as everything was so comprehensively covered in your final statements. Not that I ever wanted it to happen, but I constantly wondered why ET and B/L were not targeted with votes, but JM's explanation covers that base for your part in that, JM.
I have a meaningless sense of wonder about who ET would have taken to the final two if he'd won that final challenge, but that's really quite trivial and speculative, so I don't need it to be answered.
Apologies, just typed out and deleted a whole paragraph asking JM about my dismissal from the game, but I think I concluded that you voted with B/L, ET and myself that week? Sorry guys, got such a rubbish memory. My question was, if you did assist in my dismissal, JM, I was curious as to why you did not vote with B/L and ET that week? But it was Papa and Stu, wasn't it?
I guess I never had much clarity about the whole situation, obviously, and that'd be the only thing I wondered about.
And that's about it. Sorry ET, nothing separate for you as you did very honestly cover anything I could think of!
Good luck, fellas, and may be the best wilderbeast win!
Thanks Teeth.
Thank you everyone for the diversity of the questions you gave me.
I've tried to answer them open and honestly.
With the TV series you might sit back and watch what actually happened, but here we don't have that chance, so I hope it's given some insight into some of the workings that went into this mad journey.
I think the diversity of questions sent to me hopefully reflect the complexity and involvement of my game and the many decisions and moments it had.
I didn't win the final challenge, so I don't have a question about why I took whom (that will have to remain a story for another time), but I hope you've enjoyed some insight into the workings of my game and I look forward to twiddling my fingers and figuring out what will fill the huge space that Survivor filled.
Good luck to JM - it's been a pleasure
Enjoy your votes
Congrats on making it to the end, and wonderfully played from both of you. I am not sure I can think of a question as everything was so comprehensively covered in your final statements. Not that I ever wanted it to happen, but I constantly wondered why ET and B/L were not targeted with votes, but JM's explanation covers that base for your part in that, JM.
I have a meaningless sense of wonder about who ET would have taken to the final two if he'd won that final challenge, but that's really quite trivial and speculative, so I don't need it to be answered.
Apologies, just typed out and deleted a whole paragraph asking JM about my dismissal from the game, but I think I concluded that you voted with B/L, ET and myself that week? Sorry guys, got such a rubbish memory. My question was, if you did assist in my dismissal, JM, I was curious as to why you did not vote with B/L and ET that week? But it was Papa and Stu, wasn't it?
I guess I never had much clarity about the whole situation, obviously, and that'd be the only thing I wondered about.
And that's about it. Sorry ET, nothing separate for you as you did very honestly cover anything I could think of!
Good luck, fellas, and may be the best wilderbeast win!
Thanks Teeth.
Thank you everyone for the diversity of the questions you gave me.
I've tried to answer them open and honestly.
With the TV series you might sit back and watch what actually happened, but here we don't have that chance, so I hope it's given some insight into some of the workings that went into this mad journey.
I think the diversity of questions sent to me hopefully reflect the complexity and involvement of my game and the many decisions and moments it had.
I didn't win the final challenge, so I don't have a question about why I took whom (that will have to remain a story for another time), but I hope you've enjoyed some insight into the workings of my game and I look forward to twiddling my fingers and figuring out what will fill the huge space that Survivor filled.
Good luck to JM - it's been a pleasure
Enjoy your votes
FalconSloth- Posts : 2433
Reputation : 1351
Join date : 2019-02-27
Location : Brisbane
Thanks for all these questions and answers. Votes have been coming in and shall continue to come in until 6:00pm AEST tomorrow when J will read them out in the final tribal council of NRLFF Survivor Season 2
wolfking- Fanatics Immortal
- Posts : 33766
Reputation : 13864
Join date : 2016-04-26
Age : 40
Location : Brisbane
- ET's response to Moan:
- easytiger wrote:Moanaman: Easy, you described to me last week how I "have consistently had the worst reads in this game." Actually I had you and B/L figured early on, below is a PM between me and Milch when I was being voted out for the second time..[/size]
[size=54]Wasn't far off was I? Well apart from the Rabbits thing.....[/size]
[size=54]When I was kidnapped into Carty, you and I discussed keeping me safe from the vote you said "you greatly overestimate my position in the game" you lied, you lied about voting out Welshy, you lied about voting out Milch the following week. So my question to you is this....[/size]
[size=54]Should I vote for the person who consistently lied to me or the one who had the balls to tell me the truth and tell me he was flipping on what was agreed?[/size]
I appreciate your directness, and I will also be open and direct.
If I understand correctly, you'd like me to congratulate you for figuring out after the merge that B/L and I were running things?
As I mentioned in a previous answer, I think we announced ourselves with the Chucky blindside, and the Welshy move cemented it.
You underestimate Rabbits describing him as a patsy that we would take to the end. I think you do him a disservice and I can't agree with that assessment.
I watched Rabbits adapt and adjust his game to the changing environment - he was here to play.
I am sure that he would've been prepared to make a move, and I know that he was actively looking to create social connections to position himself in the game.
So, your read on him and what we would do with him was completely wrong.
For what it's worth, B/L and I didn't always agree, B/L wanted to take Rabbits further in the game, the decision to take him out when we did was mine (for the reasons I've said in Rabbits Q).
You suggest our strategy would be to take out people outside of our alliance one by one;
I mean, yeah, anything else doesn't make much sense?
You thought Stu and Wolfking would be the first we'd pick off in our alliance. That was completely incorrect.
I was extremely close to Wolfking - he was someone I would've happily gone to the end with.
Even after Stu made it to fourth, I found it hard to feel excited for the final three; having just voted out someone I had a great relationship with - voting Stu was one of the worst moments in the game for me.
In the second part of your question, you focus exclusively on your perspective of my role in our relationship. But that's not how relationships work, is it?
There are two parties in a relationship, so I will give a fuller account of what went on between us.
About seven weeks into the competition, I had just observed L-Jimmy, Snatch and Camo all go in quick succession. From my discussions with Chewie, Pookus & JM, I had a fair idea of what was going on, but I had some holes in my information around Rabbits, Random and your role - who was driving the alliance. I wanted to get a sense of everyone in the game before we merged.
I approached you, asking if you had any plans after the merge and I offered that it can't hurt to have some allies.
My approach was open and genuine.
You responded by pushing for information about Carty.
I gave my perspective on the Chucky blindside and incriminated myself and my role in it. I also let you know how it damaged my relationship with Welshy.
I gave you information about my game and my vulnerability and asked in return what had happened with the Snatch-Jimmy-Camo vote.
What you gave back was: "The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist".
Now you dare to stand here and question me over not revealing everything about my place in the game.
You followed it up with an audacious question "who would you want to vote out from Carty first?".
Again, a demanding push for information after offering nothing in return.
I was patient with you and again gave you the truth.
Chucky had gone a matter of days prior, I had just experienced the gravity of blindsiding a quality player in the game, and so I said the truth: "To be honest, there's no one on Carty that I am wanting to vote off right now"
I asked in return "What about yourself and Cheese - care to reciprocate with some information? is there anyone you're in with or particularly not wanting to see stick around?"
You blanked me in response.
Yet here you are feeling like I owe you.
I came to you with goodwill and honesty, you treated me like I was your plaything.
When Carty won the "kidnap challenge" you were an easy sell to my alliance. By that point I knew you were exactly what it said on the label.
I knew that your approach wouldn't weaken my relationships on my tribe, and if you made it to the merge, no harm would be done.
By comparison, Chewie or Cunbert coming over could've drastically changed the social landscape.
You confirmed that the day you arrived (having not said anything to me for a week), stating: "We now have the opportunity to change the game completely! You up for some mayhem?" and "im going to start flinging shit"
You wanted to be the player that changed up the game, maybe a Russell (for those who are familiar).
The problem was, where Chewie would be sneaky and sow doubt around the fringes of the game, you played it like a bull in a china shop, and everyone knew.
You reported back to Cheese saying, "Welshy and I were trying to woo you", about how you would try and get Carty to turn on each other - and again, you stand here and talk about how "we had an agreement" and that I was flipping.
You sought to threaten me, claiming that even if I win, you will have a solid 5 cheese with you at the merge.
Then again, you pushed for where I sat and told me exactly what you believed the setup on Carty was (a list that was exactly inline with Welshy's reading of the game); ET, B/L, Teeth and wolfie Vs Welshy, Stu and Milch with Papa on the outside.
By that point, I'd finally run out of patience for this silly dance. You didn't want an alliance, you wanted me to be your patsy, and I am no one's patsy.
So I gave you an alternative version of Carty:
"unfortunately BL, teeth and I are in a 3 vs 4 scenario right now, so we probably need to win this challenge or get you and Papa to vote with us at the next tribal"
You offered yourself and Papa as the swing votes.
The reality was that I already had Papa, and she played you and let you hear what you wanted to hear.
I also had Stu and Wolfie - but Welshy didn't know that.
I fed you that we were voting Milch and stood back and watched as you leaked it to Welshy (in case they had an idol). Welshy thought he had Wolfie as a spy on the inside of our alliance, in reality Welshy had taken in a Wolf in sheeps clothing - Wolfie confirmed what you had told Welshy and that we were voting Milch.
You decided to stick with us, but it was irrelevant, Welshy went home and didn't suspect a thing until his name was being read.
So you tell me, as someone who wanted to play people and play the game, why you shouldn't give respect to someone who outwitted and outplayed you?
You call me a liar; tell me why I should've trusted you given the context of the nothing that you gave me in return.
In that entire exchange, you either lied to me, lied to Welshy, or lied to your Cheese tribe mates.
I think you lied to all three parties. I just lied to you, and even then, I mostly just gave you wanted to believe.
Your quoting of me was in response to you saying:
"Guarantee my safety till we merge and I'll give you the rundown at Cheese".
Bargaining, but always wanting something in advance.
I responded with "I think you are massively over-estimating my position/influence in this game.
I could lie and guarantee it, but I won't. I'm simply in no position to make those guarantees to anyone".
I could've been manipulative, lied to you, and then broke that promise immediately. I chose to be honest, I didn't own my tribe or the players in it. There were great players on Carty and I wasn't about to disrespect them as being zombies that do my bidding - that was never the case. I influenced, I didn't own.
For the record, Milchy wasn't voted off the week following Welshy, he wasn't voted off for another 5 weeks. I don't believe I told any lies about the Milch vote. If I wanted to play Milch, I could've taken his gifted idol (which he offered to me in exchange for mine) and then still played my gifted idol on someone else while sending him home. History will show I didn't do that, I sought to treat people with the respect they deserve.
You were the only person in the game that I had friction with in the game. I guess the question is are you the type of man that can admit and give credit to the someone who beat you at the game that you tried to play?
wolfking- Fanatics Immortal
- Posts : 33766
Reputation : 13864
Join date : 2016-04-26
Age : 40
Location : Brisbane
B/L wrote:
Chucky and eventually welshy went mainly because you sent a pm to welshy with your plans both wolfie and I thought we would be working with you post merge but when we were left out of the pm we knew we had to act to blow up that potential alliance and it all went from there.
Welshy was easily leader of the group early on but after the moves were made ET and I rose up and if anything ET took over from there and stayed up on top. JM did a great job going from one of the guys at the bottom to navigating his way easily to final 3.
Yeah Chewie, we were close in season 1 so when I found out this and I wasn't included in the early stages, not gonna lie, it didn't sit well with me. I could have reached out to you I agree and was thinking about it before all this.
Teeth Eater- Posts : 4782
Reputation : 2281
Join date : 2018-02-20
StuDogg101 wrote:
Ok so in my/our defence, our path to the final needed something to happen and at this juncture it appeared like the best option. What we didn't count on was the ET/BL/JM triumvirate. I knew if I was sitting in the final 2 there were very few people I could legitimately beat (if any) without trying some things on the home stretch. I reached out to Papa and we agreed our best interests were to vote together, and determine week by week who that would be for. I had hitched my wagon to the ET/BL train long before, and as it turns out that continuing to do so was the incorrect decision post merge.
Hindsight and everything, but when it was put to me to vote one of the three it felt like the right decision, especially with idols still in play. I wanted to be as close to 100% sure the person I voted for was going home that week. And to protect what I thought was the alliance with ET and BL, AND stay true to the convo I had had with Papa, Teeth was the result.
Haha, yeah, no worries at all, mate. Like B/L mentioned below, I said to both ET and B/L in the aftermath that it was a bummer, but the right move by you guys.
I best get my vote in.
Awesome final responses, JM and ET. Reading all this with your recollections and detail makes me well aware that I'm not cut out for the final two, lol.
Chewie- Fanatic
- Posts : 17635
Reputation : 12410
Join date : 2016-02-03
Location : Top of the FOG
B/L wrote:
Chucky and eventually welshy went mainly because you sent a pm to welshy with your plans both wolfie and I thought we would be working with you post merge but when we were left out of the pm we knew we had to act to blow up that potential alliance and it all went from there.
Welshy was easily leader of the group early on but after the moves were made ET and I rose up and if anything ET took over from there and stayed up on top. JM did a great job going from one of the guys at the bottom to navigating his way easily to final 3.
I forgot to mention Pookus... tried to keep him in the game too
Chewie- Fanatic
- Posts : 17635
Reputation : 12410
Join date : 2016-02-03
Location : Top of the FOG
wolfking wrote:
Yeah Chewie, we were close in season 1 so when I found out this and I wasn't included in the early stages, not gonna lie, it didn't sit well with me. I could have reached out to you I agree and was thinking about it before all this.
Oh wow, I thought PMs were private messages?
Sorry Wolfie, in hindsight I should have broadened my horizon in those early weeks, Welshy sent me a pm before tribes were anounced, and Random was part of the convo too.
After the tribes were announced I mainly focussed on the shenanigans at Cheese and making allies there, I had some loose connections at Carty, but most of those were eliminated early on, ET was the only one that remained, we fed each other a lot of info, which helped in knowing when to play the idols or change the way Cunbert and myself were voting, and it helped in convincing players to vote certain ways....
yes Rabbits21... I was one of the moles