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    NRLFF Survivor Season 2 - Part 3

    Rabbits21
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    Post by Rabbits21 Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:05 pm

    Thanks for answering guys I have made my decision.
    StuDogg101
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    Post by StuDogg101 Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:39 pm

    Great answers guys, answers some of my questions too.
    B/L
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    Post by B/L Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:22 am

    Some very impressive responses indeed.

    It is good to reflect and look back on all the work that went into the game and to have it all aired out like this as most people would have no idea looking from the outside in. A worthy final 2 battle.
    Jele
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    Post by Jele Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:32 am

    Great reading so far. Congrats ET and JM for making the final two.
    FalconSloth
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    Post by FalconSloth Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:29 am

    Those are some great answers. The last of the questions have been sent through and I will accept votes once they have been answered
    Jumping Marlin
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    Post by Jumping Marlin Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:24 am

    Moanaman - Do you like your steak Rare or Medium Rare?

    Hey Moanaman,

    You are a unique and entertaining man! What a joy to watch you call a spade a spade and loved you calling out inconsistencies throughout.

    As to your question, I’m a medium rare man.
    Jumping Marlin
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    Post by Jumping Marlin Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:36 am

    Chewie - Sorry about blowing up your Cheese alliance  Twisted Evil  , I had hoped to win your favour after the idol play, but our paths diverted. My question for you is, why did you pick ET over B/L for the final 2? Did you think B/L was the bigger threat?


    Hey Chewie,

    Yeah, would have loved to team up but we both had to follow the flow of the game.  What a blessing your humour was to the Cheese tribe and beyond.  I can see from your posts above that you created some mayhem that reverberated around the tribe for some time.  I think 'it must have been Chewie' might be my answer to the little mysteries of the game that I never find out.

    At one point a fellow Cheese tribe member (not you) accused me of engaging with Carty behind their back - appearing to miss the irony a that to make such an accusation, they must have been talking to Carty behind my back. But I wonder if "it must've been Chewie" applies here too?  

    Regarding B/L vs ET, I answered this in my reply to Milchcow, so I won’t repeat it again.  The short version as to whether I thought B/L was a bigger threat, is an unsure "maybe".
    Chewie
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    Post by Chewie Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:46 am

    It's great to read how you guys navigated the season. I was on the pulse for most of the tribal councils with the connections I had during the season, but It's good to hear the finer details of what was going on.
    @JM I didn't tell outright lies about you to Rabbits, I just sowed some seeds of doubt Wink
    Sorry @Wolfie for having to break up a good thing, we had preferred to target B/L but he had too many loyalists around him so it was hard to get the votes.
    ET was pretty safe as he was in my final 3 plan, I was quick to divert the votes away from him if his name was ever mentioned.
    Cunbert and I knew JM was close to one of B/L and ET. I thought it was B/L, but I was wrong.
    Both ET and JM kept their alliance hidden well.
    Jumping Marlin
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    Post by Jumping Marlin Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:51 am

    B/L:  Is the fact you struck up an early relationship with ET the sole reason you took him through ? Out of loyalty or was there more to it then that, do you think you were a better chance of beating him then me and why ?

    Hey B/L,

    This is clearly a popular question for me, and I have tried to address it above in earlier replies.  I'm hoping that gives some clarity.  

    I still feel gutted I didn’t take you (and I appreciate the way you responded - all class).  My pitch to FS to take 3 was real, I would’ve loved to have been up against you and ET both.  I think you deserved it as much as us two.  I get the feeling ET feels the same.

    As I said in a prior response, I thought you would be formidable.  While I agree with your pitch that ET is a fan favourite and possibly therefore a jury favourite, when I thought about the jury though I didn't think that would be such a factor.  I am pretty confident the jury will look through FF reputation and decide on the game play.

    Just to add one further comment to my prior ones.  When making my choice, I felt I knew more about ETs game that I did about yours.  So the 'know your enemy' also played a part in my thinking too.
    Jumping Marlin
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    Post by Jumping Marlin Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:36 am

    Studogg101- 1. What motivated the message to ET week one? Random luck or did you know something we didn't?
    2. I agreed with your comments on the many ways your idol benefitted you and those around you. In hindsight, I now know why when I brought up your name as one of the top threats, it was deflected every time. But my solace is in the fact I was right because here you are. Did you expect you fly under the radar so well? By the time it was common knowledge you were a threat it was too late. I respect the social aspect of your game even though I never dealt with you directly. I particularly liked the part about not harbouring resentment to those who tried to vote you off etc, because ultimately it's *just a game* as they say.
    3. Win or lose, will you play again? What is the biggest lesson you think you learned that you could give someone going into the game next time?



    Hey Studogg101

    Thanks very much for the message.  I was so close to reaching out to you a few times, especially late in the game.  I just wasn’t entirely sure of your allegiances though, and didn’t end up reaching across.  From all accounts, you are a quality person, which feeds directly into your first question.  

    1:  Motivation to message ET

    I was initially motivated by my learnings from season 1.  

    I got votes in week 1 and nearly went home.  So I was determined to form some alliances as early as possible.  I reached out to ET before the game had officially started (after we knew the 24 players but before we knew the tribes).  

    In season 1 I also had ‘alliances’ that I would classify as pretty flimsy. My first alliance of 7, I was on the bottom and I never felt I could trust anyone.  I wanted to play this season with at least one player I could fully trust.  So, then why ET?  The short version is I thought he was honourable and would be someone I could trust.  Here’s the backstory.

    In 2021 I ran a “game of sheep” during one of the covid breaks.  I asked 20 questions, 10 about NRL and 10 about the forum members (eg who would you take most home to your mum).  For one of the forum based questions (I can’t recall what it was I’m sorry), but the biggest vote was Rabiits21.  In the context of the question and what was generally happening on the forum, I felt really unhappy with the response (which I hadn’t predicted).  My thoughts were that it was bordering on bullying, and I decided not to publish it.  I wrote on the forum I was withdrawing the question and would not reveal the answers.  As you’d expect, I had a few messages which, shall we say, encouraged my to put my big boy pants on and publish it.  ET was the exception.  He wrote to say he thought I had done the right thing and thanked me.  As you might imagine, I was very appreciate at the time and it stayed with me.  And, of course, when you notice someone you start to pay more attention to their contributions on the forum.  And nothing since then had changed my mind.

    So based on that, I thought ET is my kind of guy.

    2:  Flying under the radar

    No, I did not at all think I could fly under the radar all the way through.  In fairness, this needed all three of ET, B/L and me to play the part.  It was a win for that alliance.  I do think it benefited all of us to keep it quiet because I suspect knowledge of a strong 3 person alliance would have lead to it becoming the target for everyone.

    As to the not holding a grudge, while it was deliberate game play strategy it had two benefits.  Firstly, it made the game more enjoyable and I got to know a few people some more.  Secondly, it’s made me contemplate applying this to real life (where I’ve been known to hold a grudge!)

    3:  Will I play again/Lessons

    Play again.  Hmm.  Not sure.  I was planning to skip this year but B/L was quite persuasive to get the last few in.

    As to lessons learned.  I still feel like an imposter... but I'll offer a few thoughts.

    I’ll start with a personal one.  For me, I found that it’s best to play with a sense of fun and perspective.  There were times, especially early on, when I got too serious and it became less fun to the point where I contemplated leaving the game.  Snatch (my closest Cheese ally at the time) was amazing and basically said to take a break and chill out and he’d carry the load for a week while I could leave for a bit. What a champion.  The last half of the game I have been having a whale of a time.

    Other that that, my main tip is nothing amazing.  Build relationships and try to figure out who you can trust.  Linked to this, I reckon the vast majority of the tribe like to be honest and hate lying – while at the same time few will be 100% honest.  From this, messages and the interactions are important.  Many messages appear to say one thing on a quick read, but in reality there were not.  I think I figured out quite a bit by looking at the way people express things, and by what is left unsaid etc.  I’m not especially skilled at this, so would read things multiple times to see if I there were messages I could pick up, and I used this info through the game.

    And one last thing.  Until you are gone, there is always hope. Sometimes the smallest things make a big difference.  A little game anecdote that I haven't covered before to show the vagaries of the game.  

    For the exile island challenge, Cheese won but still had to send 1 player (Carty were sending two) to exile.  L-Jimmy, who was in my tight 4 alliance volunteered (as did Snatch).  The tribe agreed it would be L-Jimmy.  I thought this was a bad play with only downside, and it took me a while but I finally talked L-Jimmy and Snatch out of volunteering.  A late blindside was planned and Cunbert the target.  Alas the plan was foiled only by Camo (also in my/L-Jimmy alliance) had voted early and was not contactable in time.  So it ended 4-4, with Cunbert beating Jimmy in paper, rock scissors.  So such a thin margin that Cunbert survived and we know what a great game he played thereafter.  [Cunbert, with hindsight, so happy you made it through]


    Last edited by Jumping Marlin on Thu Sep 22, 2022 11:02 am; edited 1 time in total
    Milchcow
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    Post by Milchcow Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:38 am


    Cheers guys, my vote has been sent through. May the best Marlin/Tiger win
    Jumping Marlin
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    Post by Jumping Marlin Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:43 am

    TeethEater:  Congrats on making it to the end, and wonderfully played from both of you. I am not sure I can think of a question as everything was so comprehensively covered in your final statements. Not that I ever wanted it to happen, but I constantly wondered why ET and B/L were not targeted with votes, but JM's explanation covers that base for your part in that, JM.

    I have a meaningless sense of wonder about who ET would have taken to the final two if he'd won that final challenge, but that's really quite trivial and speculative, so I don't need it to be answered.

    Apologies, just typed out and deleted a whole paragraph asking JM about my dismissal from the game, but I think I concluded that you voted with B/L, ET and myself that week? Sorry guys, got such a rubbish memory. My question was, if you did assist in my dismissal, JM, I was curious as to why you did not vote with B/L and ET that week? But it was Papa and Stu, wasn't it?

    I guess I never had much clarity about the whole situation, obviously, and that'd be the only thing I wondered about.

    And that's about it. Sorry ET, nothing separate for you as you did very honestly cover anything I could think of!

    Good luck, fellas, and may be the best wilderbeast win!



    Hey Teeth,

    Thanks for your generous comments.  

    You have landed on the right conclusion, I voted with you the night you went home. So Papa and Stu did the dirty.
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    Post by Jumping Marlin Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:50 am

    RandomSil - Did you ever consider voting out ET instead of BL? I know you had the partnership from the start but did it cross your mind or was ET the easier win over BL as well?

    Hey Random,

    You bet I did. I had two draft messages to send to FS, one for B/L and one for ET. I vacillated right to the end and submitted right on the deadline. I even laid out the pros and cons to my partner. (I must say, she was no help. Her advice was something like “I can’t believe you bozos spend your time doing this”.)

    Over the two days I had at various time settled on both ET and B/L. I still have no idea if B/L would’ve been an easier or harder opponent than ET.
    Jumping Marlin
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    Post by Jumping Marlin Thu Sep 22, 2022 11:03 am

    Phew, I am now done. See you all at tribal!

    Beer
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    Post by Cunbert Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:34 pm

    Great arguements fellas. Made it a tough vote. Once again congrats to you two being here and for FS running a good game
    easytiger
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    Post by easytiger Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:46 pm

    I've just got through my commitments for today, so hope to work my way through my answers to the remaining questions this afternoon.
    easytiger
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    Post by easytiger Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:46 pm

    B/L: Do you think you would of made the final 2 without us working as close together as we did ? Would you of tried a different approach ?

    When I started Survivor, I wasn't a good enough player to likely make the merge let alone place myself as making a final 2.
    I was always going to need to learn and grow throughout the game. The biggest question would probably be whether I would've grown quickly enough in an alliance with someone else? - it's difficult to say.

    I can say that the first thing I noticed in alliance with you was that your social game was confident, assertive and bold. That isn't a place where I am right now.
    So, it was a choice for me to either rise to the challenge and push myself out of my comfort zone or go home.
    I put my trust in the nature of the players in this game. I learned by example and turned a social weakness into a strength.

    I bring a subtlety and delicateness to my social game that probably differs from your style, but I'm not sure it would've mattered without the assertive approach that you helped me discover.

    We were like minds in terms of tactics and strategy - Wolfie was pretty similar in this regard.
    You are also very considered, sincere and loyal. Those attributes kept our partnership unbreakable through to the final 3, so yeah, it's pretty hard for me to project what would've been if things were different.

    I will say that there are so many intelligent, affable players in this game, and I am a battler.
    My wife describes me as the most stubborn person she's ever met; I prefer to frame it as having a level of endurance - I don't give up easily, and where I find myself lacking, I actively look for ways to improve or to give me an edge.
    I'm confident I would've formed a good partnership with someone else - I had a lot of fun working with a diverse range of people in this game as it was.
    I certainly would've given it my best to go as far as I could with someone else and I'm pretty sure I would've enjoyed the ride with no doubt some areas different to how we played.

    Would I have made the final 2? I guess we'll never know - but an insight might be to question how many people in this game would've considered working with me to get to the final 3?
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    Post by easytiger Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:17 pm

    Chewie: Did you ever consider taking me to the final 3? We were allies from the early game, but it sounds like you were in bed with multiple lovers (I do appreciate your effort in diverting the votes away from me at times)

    Of all the people in this game, you were an enigma to me - I generally think I had a pretty good read on most of the people in this game (Milch excepted), but I always struggled to know exactly where I sat with you.

    It began at the start of Survivor when I asked you if you wanted to ally. It will probably surprise no one to know that you responded with a somewhat affirming Star Wars themed gif.
    I mean, it was cool, but I was left thinking, is this one of those responses where you don't say no? But you're not exactly saying yes?
    It seemed like a "keeping my options open" response - so I didn't really have big expectations.

    From there, we had the Chucky/Welshy votes on Carty, which broke apart a bigger cross-tribe alliance that I was somewhat a part of, and you seemed to go very quiet - at the time, I thought our association may have ended.

    Then we shared more and got closer. You told me about some things and kept other things quiet (like pesky idols). I told you about some things and kept other things quiet.
    It was a strange sort of alliance, but in it, I feel that I got to meet the man behind the Wookie, and I grew to like this warm, intelligent hairy beast.

    The truth is, I didn't tend to picture a final three at all.
    If I had of given myself that luxury, most of Survivor, it would've been my two closest allies in B/L & Wolfie.
    I've always thought the whole idea of tribalism on Survivor seems so circumstantial, but I now understand how there is something compelling about shared experience and battles. Even JM, who I deeply respect, couldn't compete with the shared experiences I had with two other great people of my tribe.
    I sometimes have thought, "what if?".
    If I had landed on Cheese, we might well have been a final 4? type alliance with JM in the mix. Maybe in some other parallel universe, that happens.

    In reality, the one time you offered me a final 3 spot was following Teeths elimination, and in response, I said to you;
    "Speaking openly; I think you know that there's probably better options than myself to go final 3 with, so I won't hold you to that.
    I haven't promised anyone final 3 and now aren't really in a position to offer anyone finals promises, so I'll just focus on picking myself up off the floor and get ready for this weeks challenge"

    And that was the truth of it.
    Despite the two huge tribals that you and Cunbert achieved in knocking out Wolfie & TeethEater, and despite the appearance that the game was turning, I still believed I had played a game that could still challenge you or Cunbert if we went down to the final 3.
    Nevertheless, I didn't want to offer finals promises to anyone, and like I said at the time, I focused on picking myself up off the floor, and I got ready to take back control of the game.
    In a perhaps ironic twist, your action in taking out Wolfie & Teeth cemented for me that I couldn't go further in this game with you.
    Chewie
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    Post by Chewie Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:25 pm

    All these accusations of me taking people out Shocked

    ... it was all the work of the cunning conniving Cunbert Razz

    NRLFF Survivor Season 2 - Part 3 - Page 23 Not-me-the-devil
    easytiger
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    Post by easytiger Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:07 pm

    Moanaman: Easy, you described to me last week how I "have consistently had the worst reads in this game." Actually I had you and B/L figured early on, below is a PM between me and Milch when I was being voted out for the second time..[/size]


    Re: Survivor - Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:01 am

    And thank you for trying. The game is over now. They will pick everyone off one by one and take Rabbits, the patsy, to the final 3.

    You have a massive target on your back, with your ability to win challenges. They will clean up what's left of Cheese in this order Random, Chewie, Cunbert and Carty You Stu and Wolfie next. Teeth/Marlin will be out last before the final 3



    Wasn't far off was I? Well apart from the Rabbits thing.....

    When I was kidnapped into Carty, you and I discussed keeping me safe from the vote you said "you greatly overestimate my position in the game" you lied, you lied about voting out Welshy, you lied about voting out Milch the following week. So my question to you is this....

    Should I vote for the person who consistently lied to me or the one who had the balls to tell me the truth and tell me he was flipping on what was agreed?



    I appreciate your directness, and I will also be open and direct.

    If I understand correctly, you'd like me to congratulate you for figuring out after the merge that B/L and I were running things?
    As I mentioned in a previous answer, I think we announced ourselves with the Chucky blindside, and the Welshy move cemented it.

    You underestimate Rabbits describing him as a patsy that we would take to the end. I think you do him a disservice and I can't agree with that assessment.
    I watched Rabbits adapt and adjust his game to the changing environment - he was here to play.
    I am sure that he would've been prepared to make a move, and I know that he was actively looking to create social connections to position himself in the game.
    So, your read on him and what we would do with him was completely wrong.
    For what it's worth, B/L and I didn't always agree, B/L wanted to take Rabbits further in the game, the decision to take him out when we did was mine (for the reasons I've said in Rabbits Q).

    You suggest our strategy would be to take out people outside of our alliance one by one;
    I mean, yeah, anything else doesn't make much sense?

    You thought Stu and Wolfking would be the first we'd pick off in our alliance. That was completely incorrect.
    I was extremely close to Wolfking - he was someone I would've happily gone to the end with.
    Even after Stu made it to fourth, I found it hard to feel excited for the final three; having just voted out someone I had a great relationship with - voting Stu was one of the worst moments in the game for me.

    In the second part of your question, you focus exclusively on your perspective of my role in our relationship. But that's not how relationships work, is it?
    There are two parties in a relationship, so I will give a fuller account of what went on between us.

    About seven weeks into the competition, I had just observed L-Jimmy, Snatch and Camo all go in quick succession. From my discussions with Chewie, Pookus & JM, I had a fair idea of what was going on, but I had some holes in my information around Rabbits, Random and your role - who was driving the alliance. I wanted to get a sense of everyone in the game before we merged.

    I approached you, asking if you had any plans after the merge and I offered that it can't hurt to have some allies.
    My approach was open and genuine.
    You responded by pushing for information about Carty.

    I gave my perspective on the Chucky blindside and incriminated myself and my role in it. I also let you know how it damaged my relationship with Welshy.
    I gave you information about my game and my vulnerability and asked in return what had happened with the Snatch-Jimmy-Camo vote.

    What you gave back was: "The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist".
    Now you dare to stand here and question me over not revealing everything about my place in the game.

    You followed it up with an audacious question "who would you want to vote out from Carty first?".
    Again, a demanding push for information after offering nothing in return.

    I was patient with you and again gave you the truth.
    Chucky had gone a matter of days prior, I had just experienced the gravity of blindsiding a quality player in the game, and so I said the truth: "To be honest, there's no one on Carty that I am wanting to vote off right now"
    I asked in return "What about yourself and Cheese - care to reciprocate with some information? is there anyone you're in with or particularly not wanting to see stick around?"

    You blanked me in response.
    Yet here you are feeling like I owe you.
    I came to you with goodwill and honesty, you treated me like I was your plaything.

    When Carty won the "kidnap challenge" you were an easy sell to my alliance. By that point I knew you were exactly what it said on the label.
    I knew that your approach wouldn't weaken my relationships on my tribe, and if you made it to the merge, no harm would be done.
    By comparison, Chewie or Cunbert coming over could've drastically changed the social landscape.

    You confirmed that the day you arrived (having not said anything to me for a week), stating: "We now have the opportunity to change the game completely! You up for some mayhem?" and "im going to start flinging shit"

    You wanted to be the player that changed up the game, maybe a Russell (for those who are familiar).
    The problem was, where Chewie would be sneaky and sow doubt around the fringes of the game, you played it like a bull in a china shop, and everyone knew.
    You reported back to Cheese saying, "Welshy and I were trying to woo you", about how you would try and get Carty to turn on each other - and again, you stand here and talk about how "we had an agreement" and that I was flipping.

    You sought to threaten me, claiming that even if I win, you will have a solid 5 cheese with you at the merge.
    Then again, you pushed for where I sat and told me exactly what you believed the setup on Carty was (a list that was exactly inline with Welshy's reading of the game); ET, B/L, Teeth and wolfie Vs Welshy, Stu and Milch with Papa on the outside.

    By that point, I'd finally run out of patience for this silly dance. You didn't want an alliance, you wanted me to be your patsy, and I am no one's patsy.

    So I gave you an alternative version of Carty:
    "unfortunately BL, teeth and I are in a 3 vs 4 scenario right now, so we probably need to win this challenge or get you and Papa to vote with us at the next tribal"

    You offered yourself and Papa as the swing votes.
    The reality was that I already had Papa, and she played you and let you hear what you wanted to hear.
    I also had Stu and Wolfie - but Welshy didn't know that.
    I fed you that we were voting Milch and stood back and watched as you leaked it to Welshy (in case they had an idol). Welshy thought he had Wolfie as a spy on the inside of our alliance, in reality Welshy had taken in a Wolf in sheeps clothing - Wolfie confirmed what you had told Welshy and that we were voting Milch.

    You decided to stick with us, but it was irrelevant, Welshy went home and didn't suspect a thing until his name was being read.

    So you tell me, as someone who wanted to play people and play the game, why you shouldn't give respect to someone who outwitted and outplayed you?

    You call me a liar; tell me why I should've trusted you given the context of the nothing that you gave me in return.
    In that entire exchange, you either lied to me, lied to Welshy, or lied to your Cheese tribe mates.
    I think you lied to all three parties. I just lied to you, and even then, I mostly just gave you wanted to believe.  

    Your quoting of me was in response to you saying:
    "Guarantee my safety till we merge and I'll give you the rundown at Cheese".
    Bargaining, but always wanting something in advance.
    I responded with "I think you are massively over-estimating my position/influence in this game.
    I could lie and guarantee it, but I won't. I'm simply in no position to make those guarantees to anyone".
    I could've been manipulative, lied to you, and then broke that promise immediately. I chose to be honest, I didn't own my tribe or the players in it. There were great players on Carty and I wasn't about to disrespect them as being zombies that do my bidding - that was never the case. I influenced, I didn't own.

    For the record, Milchy wasn't voted off the week following Welshy, he wasn't voted off for another 5 weeks. I don't believe I told any lies about the Milch vote. If I wanted to play Milch, I could've taken his gifted idol (which he offered to me in exchange for mine) and then still played my gifted idol on someone else while sending him home. History will show I didn't do that, I sought to treat people with the respect they deserve.
    You were the only person in the game that I had friction with in the game. I guess the question is are you the type of man that can admit and give credit to the someone who beat you at the game that you tried to play?

      Current date/time is Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:08 pm