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    State of Origin 2017 Series

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    SI
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    Re: State of Origin 2017 Series

    Post by SI on Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:14 am

    Moose wrote:
    Ice wrote:

    Clearly above I clarified as I wrote and said they will likely both be there. We will see I guess if they are both there for the final.
    If fit Frizell will be there. Mcguire has Trent 'donuts' Merrin to contend with for the lock spot. Mal picked him earlier this year despite being in horrendous form.

    Trent from Crunchie.
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    ryno_

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    Re: State of Origin 2017 Series

    Post by ryno_ on Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:13 am

    Honeysett wrote: We had so many injuries and after the 2nd half of game 2 we just didn't have a chance.


    ... You named an unchanged 17 for all 3 games. QLD used more players in 3 games then they ever have before.

    Using injuries as an excuse is laughable.

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    Re: State of Origin 2017 Series

    Post by Oz Sport Mad on Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:10 am

    Unsurprising to see the likes of Ice and Honeysett downplaying this loss from the Blues - clearly a bit of mental self-preservation there.

    Face fact's lads, this was a crushing defeat....probably the most crushing I have witnessed since the dawn of Origin.

    I was that concerned we would get beat in this match that I didn't even take a slice of the $2.30 odds that were being offered for a QLD win.
    But the match was nearly as dominant as the Blues victory in Game 1....an absolute shellacking.

    Obviously the likes of Cam (deserved MoTM), Munster and Holmes did well but quite frankly it was our defence and forwards dominance that set that victory up.
    Special mention to Josh McGuire, gee he played a brilliant game.

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    Re: State of Origin 2017 Series

    Post by Ice on Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:35 am

    surmo13 wrote:

    1. not relevant, my intent wasn't to say you're wrong, just to provide evidence about my observations of your posting habits.

    2. when people do these 1v1 'on paper' comparisons, it's to compare their ability as individuals, which you're all too happy to do when you're selecting the opposing player, but when it's impossible to debate that the opposing player is better you say 'yeh, i guess my player is clearly superior, but hell, your inferior player could be made to look just as good in the right team so it's a close call'

    Re point 2, fair enough. The reason I gave the clarification with the few nsw players that are clearly better was simply to highlight the point that the Qld TEAM was and is a class, perhaps 2 classes above NSW, which was my point given I was arguing Joey was a drip for thinking NSW had the better side.

    Re point one, again, tell me were I incorrectly talk my teams down?

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    Re: State of Origin 2017 Series

    Post by Ice on Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:45 am

    Oz Sport Mad wrote:Unsurprising to see the likes of Ice and Honeysett downplaying this loss from the Blues - clearly a bit of mental self-preservation there.

    Face fact's lads, this was a crushing defeat....probably the most crushing I have witnessed since the dawn of Origin.

    I was that concerned we would get beat in this match that I didn't even take a slice of the $2.30 odds that were being offered for a QLD win.
    But the match was nearly as dominant as the Blues victory in Game 1....an absolute shellacking.

    Obviously the likes of Cam (deserved MoTM), Munster and Holmes did well but quite frankly it was our defence and forwards dominance that set that victory up.
    Special mention to Josh McGuire, gee he played a brilliant game.

    Me??, I said before the game Qld would win, I have fully expected them all year to win the series given the quality of player they have in their spine. I'm not sure how I'm downplaying it? This Qld side is far to good and I haven't made any excuses. Because the stupid masses thought otherwise doesn't change how right I was in my assessment and it certainly doesn't make it more crushing than any other defeat. All losses are crushing and personally, this one was no more or less crushing than others.

    Next year, I expect us to win given the likelY changes to Qld and the fact we have 2 home games I believe. In Origin, the past decade aside, I expect the home side to take the series, if we don't win next year, it will be far more crushing than losing a decider in Qld to the Big 3.

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    Re: State of Origin 2017 Series

    Post by Ice on Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:51 am

    Oz Sport Mad wrote:Unsurprising to see the likes of Ice and Honeysett downplaying this loss from the Blues - clearly a bit of mental self-preservation there.

    Face fact's lads, this was a crushing defeat....probably the most crushing I have witnessed since the dawn of Origin.

    I was that concerned we would get beat in this match that I didn't even take a slice of the $2.30 odds that were being offered for a QLD win.
    But the match was nearly as dominant as the Blues victory in Game 1....an absolute shellacking.

    Obviously the likes of Cam (deserved MoTM), Munster and Holmes did well but quite frankly it was our defence and forwards dominance that set that victory up.
    Special mention to Josh McGuire, gee he played a brilliant game.

    Frizell was better

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    Re: State of Origin 2017 Series

    Post by Oz Sport Mad on Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:59 am

    Ice wrote:

    Me??, I said before the game Qld would win, I have fully expected them all year to win the series given the quality of player they have in their spine. I'm not sure how I'm downplaying it? This Qld side is far to good and I haven't made any excuses. Because the stupid masses thought otherwise doesn't change how right I was in my assessment and it certainly doesn't make it more crushing than any other defeat.  All losses are crushing and personally, this one was no more or less crushing than others.

    Next year, I expect us to win given the likelY changes to Qld and the fact we have 2 home games I believe. In Origin, the past decade aside, I expect the home side to take the series, if we don't win next year, it will be far more crushing than losing a decider in Qld to the Big 3.

    And I said before the game that you were downplaying it, just in case this very scenario was to eventuate.

    I'm not interested in your justifications either Ice - deep down nearly all of NSW thought they had this one.
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    Re: State of Origin 2017 Series

    Post by Moose on Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:24 am

    Oz Sport Mad wrote:

    And I said before the game that you were downplaying it, just in case this very scenario was to eventuate.

    I'm not interested in your justifications either Ice - deep down nearly all of NSW thought they had this one.
    I know NSW fans were scared coming into this third game and rightfully so. It was so evident after the second game that the NSW team and players and a fair portion of their fans thought they had it in the bag. Did you see Andrew Johns reaction after game 2? Ive never seen anything like it. He was a broken man.
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    Re: State of Origin 2017 Series

    Post by ryno_ on Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:33 am

    NSW were loading blue confetti into cannons at halftime in game 2. There was talk in the week leading up to game 2 that they should give the shield over after the game, to save from having to be awarded it in front of an away crowd.
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    Pain

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    Re: State of Origin 2017 Series

    Post by Pain on Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:15 pm

    Moose wrote:
    I know NSW fans were scared coming into this third game and rightfully so. It was so evident after the second game that the NSW team and players and a fair portion of their fans thought they had it in the bag. Did you see Andrew Johns reaction after game 2? Ive never seen anything like it. He was a broken man.

    First the first time ever I actually felt a bit sorry for Johns last night. He was clearly distraught and feeling the pressure that he should coach. That expectation is not really fair for him, given his mental health history and substance addictions.
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    Moose

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    Re: State of Origin 2017 Series

    Post by Moose on Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:35 pm

    Pain wrote:

    First the first time ever I actually felt a bit sorry for Johns last night.  He was clearly distraught and feeling the pressure that he should coach.  That expectation is not really fair for him, given his mental health history and substance addictions.  

    I think it was Fatty who asked him last night during the Channel 9 coverage if he will be coaching NSW next year. He flat out said no as he doesn't need that additional pressure and stress in his life. The media would be in a feeding frenzy if he coached NSW next year after the comments he made about Greg Inglis a few years ago.

    I'm not sure who will be coaching NSW next year but I will be shocked if Daley is there. Several people have suggested that Craig Bellamy should be offered the gig. I'm not sure that would be the best move either, although he has an outstanding coach he has never played state of origin football.

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    Re: State of Origin 2017 Series

    Post by Oz Sport Mad on Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:06 pm

    Moose wrote:

    I think it was Fatty who asked him last night during the Channel 9 coverage if he will be coaching NSW next year. He flat out said no as he doesn't need that additional pressure and stress in his life. The media would be in a feeding frenzy if he coached NSW next year after the comments he made about Greg Inglis a few years ago.

    I'm not sure who will be coaching NSW next year but I will be shocked if Daley is there. Several people have suggested that Craig Bellamy should be offered the gig. I'm not sure that would be the best move either, although he has an outstanding coach he has never played state of origin football.

    He flat out said no after Game 2 but last night he stopped just short of confirming that he is clearly considering it.

    NSW could do worse than a Johns/Sterlo combo.
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    Re: State of Origin 2017 Series

    Post by dasherhalo on Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:18 pm

    Interesting read, post mortem.

    A few things occur to me:

    1. Didn't see too many NSW supporters worried about the class of the Qld spine after Game 1
    2. Cam Smith played out of his skin.
    3. Josh McGuire copied the NSW forwards' game plan from game 1. Passed a HELL of a lot.
    4. Maloney. I wanted to call "mercy" on that interview. Poor bastard.
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    Re: State of Origin 2017 Series

    Post by ryno_ on Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:11 pm

    Oz Sport Mad wrote:

    He flat out said no after Game 2 but last night he stopped just short of confirming that he is clearly considering it.

    NSW could do worse than a Johns/Sterlo combo.

    It'll be Freddy, surely. He's done the City/Country apprenticeship and done pretty well.
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    Re: State of Origin 2017 Series

    Post by dasherhalo on Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:14 pm

    ryno_ wrote:

    It'll be Freddy, surely. He's done the City/Country apprenticeship and done pretty well.

    Good. Thought he was a great player. Hate him as a commentator. Hope he gets smashed.
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    Moose

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    Re: State of Origin 2017 Series

    Post by Moose on Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:12 pm

    An interesting tidbit. David Middleton said before the game the stats backed a NSW win. Very interesting.
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    Pieman

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    Re: State of Origin 2017 Series

    Post by Pieman on Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:13 am

    After going to the game, I havent had a chance to watch it on tv yet but there were some very very obvious things that I could see through my beer goggles at suncorp.

    QLDers just like origin more than NSWelshmen.

    That doesnt mean NSWmen dont like it, QLDers just like it more. They do it better, the whole city is buzzing for a few days before and after, its a real boost to the community and well, to be fair, QLDers need that more than people from NSW do. We are a bit more smug, we have other things going on in our lives than SOO and we just dont appreciate it or need is as much as QLDers.

    Walking down Queen street about lunchtime before the game. Its one of the busiest days of the year in the heart of the CBD in Brissy, and its still not half as busy as the heart of Sydney on a normal weekday lunch time. BUT, 90% of the people in there are there for the game, they have come from all parts of QLD to see it, its one of the rare times they get to see some decent shops and see a "crowd" of people. Most people are wearing maroon and its just a really good vibe, everyone is pretty happy and the place is buzzing.

    They just enjoy the day more than us from NSW, and thats fine. Its little brother syndrome. Little brother always loves getting one up on big brother and it annoys big bro. But when big bro wins, well, they are just expected to win because they are the big bro. (I assume thats why Ryno continuously comes at me (bro) on here, because he sees me as a big brother figure that he cant beat). QLDers need it more than we do, and thats fine. That doesnt mean we dont enjoy it, or love when we win. You guys just enjoy it more than what we do.

    I feel that in the next few years, if we ever start to win a few series, the big bro/little bro thing might change around a bit, considering we have 12 year olds who have only been alive for 1 series win from NSW. The 18 year olds now would only really remember 1 series win, and you would think that the desire to win and the fire would come from seeing all those losses. Then again, kids from NSW arent really brought up on SOO, where as QLDers are. It just means so much more to them. I will address the actual match in a second post, this is getting a bit lengthy.
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    Re: State of Origin 2017 Series

    Post by Pieman on Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:50 am

    From a match point of view, it was fucking evident that QLD had more energy and were prepared to do the dirty work. Where as NSW wanted to skill their way around the park. That was clear as day. NSW wont win another series until Cam smith is retired IMO. That guy, and it was obvious, controls the entire speed of the game. He does it in defence with his wrestling and referee manipulation and he does it perfectly. Its a marvel to see. You want smith making 50 tackles a game, because he doesnt tackle someone to try and stop a play, he tackles someone then positions them in a way that will make a slow play the ball and that will slow the ruck down etc etc. He is that fit and that strong and his technique is just so amazing that it doesnt sap his energy too. You dont want peats making 50 tackles a game because he tackles, to tackle. He just tackles because someone runs at him and it exhausts him. Then it limits his decision making and cripples his and the teams attack. Smith's decision making is amazing, never makes the wrong call. He controls it in attack because no one is sure where he is going to pass the ball, or if hes going to kick it or run it or what ever. Everyone is on edge the entire game because no one on defence knows what cam smith is going to do. Then you chuck in some great outside backs, some obedient forwards who roll their sleeves up and a halfback who organises what smith wants - and you have the perfect side. Its honestly brilliant to see and it was a sad day with thurston retiring, but when smith goes - far out thats going to be 1. a big motivator for another series and 2. a sad day for state of origin in general.

    Slater is also a game changer, personally I think if he played in game 1 - game three would have been a dead rubber. The fact he wasnt picked in game one is still a fucking farce. Michael Morgan is also one of my fav players. The guy is just a hard worker, strong, talented and skillful player and I am jealous that he plays for QLD and NQ. He is a guy that I would love at newcastle and would be happy if we paid a million for him. He is just that good and comes across as a quality down to earth human too, unlike a lot of these NSW players - who are super talented but come across as unlikeable prima donnas.

    The forwards just did the hard work and did it well. Maguire had a brilliant game too. They just weren't taking a backward step, werent trying to offload or ball play much and just played simple had footy.

    As far as NSW goes, we picked a more talented team, and that is our problem. We picked a bunch of talented individuals who want to show how talented they are, but they dont want to cop the knocks or do the hard work that wins games. Our prob least talented forwards are Frizzel and Klemmer and Jackson. And they are generally NSW best forwards. Friz has been injured since game 1 so he was a bit limited but the other 2 are great. They do the hard work. There is no sideways in them, they just go north and south and do the job. Friz had one bad offload I remember, and he shouldnt have thrown it, and he doesnt usually. Trbo is prob the exception there tho, hes a gun and super talented but doesnt get much of a run in origin, even though he would be one of the hardest workers in the side.

    Cordner is just great too. Great captain, has the respect of the opposition and opposition fans and is an excellent hard working talented player. We need more players to play like him - run good lines, hit hard in tackles, dont fucking offload or play out the back, just play good hard up and down footy - and we will win more games. Its as simple as that.

    QLD pick a team that is full of guys they enjoy playing with and for. They dont want to let each other down. NSW dont. We pick super talented players and expect their skill will win us games (and it does every now and then) but without the hard working players - the skillful ones like hayne become obsolete.

    These guys like Woods, Fifita, Graham all want to offload and ball play and carry blokes in tackles and graham wants to come on and kick and change the game etc. Its bullshit. It doesnt work in origin and it never has and never will. Fifita had a props game for the ages in game 1, but as soon as they figured out to get numbers in tackles and put pressure on him, he was nothing in game 2 and 3. The amount of penalties someone like Graham gives away almost literally lost us game 2 on its own and they are just dumb. I feel like he is better suited to starting the game or not being there at all because the fucking penalties he gives away for stripping the ball in particular - really hurt the team. And because he is a left sided player, he cant take corder's spot, so sorry graham you are gone from my team. Woods shouldnt have been there in the first place.

    Tedesco - the guy is a quality player who should be there for the next few series.
    Brett Morris, what else can you say about him? He is a gun, gives his all and is a likeable guy. I would be keeping him in the side even though he isnt as fast as he use to be. He should be there until he doesnt want to play origin any more.

    Fergo - deadset. Gone. His defence is disgusting and he's a complete fuckwit. Super talented, but he is one of these, looks great when we are winning, looks terrible when we lose guys. Hes gone from my side.

    Dugan - he is an interesting one. He seems to have matured over the last few years and was one of NSW best in the series, especially when he went back to FB in game 2. Amazingly talented player and goes up a gear in origin. I would be keeping him I guess.

    Hayne - we all know how talented the guy is. Possibly the most talented player in the comp. But fuck. "Big moments player". Fuck off. Thats code for "give me the ball in open space" player or it means "glory hog". Sure, he was the catalyst in 2014, just like he was the catalyst for Parra in 2009. But he isnt that player any more. He doesnt do it for the titans. You dont hear these greats of the game - guys who have actually won something - like slater smith cronk JT - ever be described as "big moments players", because they are "Every moment players". They are always involved. They are getting their teams the victories not waiting to be in a perfect moment to do something. Become an "every moment" player Hayne, not a "big" moment player. To be honest, next year I either 1. Put him at fullback or wing  2. put him on the bench and use him as a roaming player in the middle of the park or 3. leave him out of the side. He comes across unlikeable, a prima donna, a whinger and well, a target for QLD. He is immensely talented and I want to see him doing well in both club land and but he just.. doesnt have it at centre. There is too much rest period out there for him where he is not involved in the game.

    The halves, such a contentious topic. Pearce, NSW's whipping boy. Some of it deserved, most of it not. I am one of his harshest critics on here and I can do nothing but feel for the guy now. He tries his dick off in every game. He is the Kurt Gidley of halfbacks. He tries fucking hard, is the fittest, puts his body on the line and is likeable. He is also just not that good at origin level. From where we were sitting, we had a great view of his kicking too. Most went to slater or a winger on the full. He was waiting until the 5th tackle just about every time to kick, which is what the big mistake was. If he kicked on the third or 4th its a totally different game. The wingers were in the line until at least the 4th and even then, generally only 1 drops back because Pearce does most of the kicking. His kicks are just ineffective and it has to be the game plan too - not just pearces fault. They needed to do something different, kick early. Get them on their toes. But nope, it was - wait till the 5th then kick it down the middle to slater. On the full. Honestly, if they just started kicking on the 3rd early in the game, the game plays out totally different. Personally I think NSW actually missed Farah's kicking out of dummy half. I dont understand why Maloney doesnt do more kicking, he has a decent long kicking game and getting him a couple of kicks early takes a bit of the attention off pearce and puts even just a tiny bit of doubt in the mind of the defenders. Its why I think we should pick pearce at hooker. He would do the same job as Peats, and prob better, Defensively he wont let anyone down and it also takes a bit of the pressure off him because he isnt the 7 any more. He is fit enough to do it and he has a kicking game that can be utilised out of dummy half, as well as bringing in a 7 with a good kicking game. It helps the side and changes the whole dynamic of the team because there is now all of a sudden an attacking option out of dummy half.

    Maloney - I dont know hey. Good in attack, woeful in defence. Prob unfair if he gets to stay and pearce gets punted. He seems pretty likeable tho, it would come down to whether cordner and the team want to play for him.

    Guys who are not in my side for next year are
    Fergo, Woods, Peats (did nothing wrong, just offers nothing in attack), Graham.

    1. Teddy
    2. Morris
    3. Bird
    4. Dugan
    5. Trbo
    6. Moylan
    7. Maloney
    8. Klemmer
    9. Pearce
    10. Vaughn
    11. Cordner
    12. Jackson
    13. Trbo

    14. Hayne
    15. Friz
    16. Fifita
    17. Prob someone like Jack De Bellin or at least a hard working in form forward.


    Last edited by Pieman on Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:53 am; edited 1 time in total

    Dip

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    Re: State of Origin 2017 Series

    Post by Dip on Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:53 am

    Nice attempt at trolling mate, and I understand that you need to still feel relevant after another series loss by calling yourself "big brother" even though you guys winning anything is rarer than unicorn steak.

    I get why people of Sydney are looking for any glimmer of hope and keep telling themselves it'll be alright to try and motivate themselves before their daily grind starting with a 2 hour each way work commute required because it's the only way they can afford to buy a house without a 7 figure mortgage. They've trained themselves to believe that seeing a crowd of people is a highlight (which is ironic, since about the only place where a crowd is a good thing is at a sporting event, and they usually go the opposite at NRL games in Sydney by putting 8000 people in a 80000 seat stadium).

    The thing is, we don't really care if you want to feel like big brother because we haven't been brought up to be insecure like you guys. It's our own little chuckle we have to ourselves, and is one of those thing that we see amusement in the level of your stupidity, and irony - like picking Mitchell Pearce every year, Paul Gallen complaining about Nate Myles playing dirty, or complaining about referee's awarding or disallowing a try a decade later when you lose by 8 or more points.

    Poor old NSW. I suggest your players read The Little Engine that Could before you play. I feel like that's the sort of "I need a safe space because words hurt" encouragement they need. You guys probably had that every child gets a medal system growing up. Meanwhile we'll keep winning the matches up here by just playing simple, tough footy.
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    Re: State of Origin 2017 Series

    Post by Honeysett on Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:57 am

    On reflection I can safely say that Wade Graham isn't an Origin player. He made crucial club level mistakes that turned the tide in both games. Game 2 it was game and series over until he gave away a penalty that lead to the QLD comeback and Game 3 he does the same when NSW are starting to get a bit of ascendancy. He's a twat and I hope he stubs his toe.

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