2020 Parramatta Eels Thread......Lets not get carried away.

Pieman wrote:

Totally agree.
I dont see the issue about playing on the wing these days. Good wingers have 15 plus carries a game and are amazing finishers. Wingers are no longer the worst players in the side.

Yes they are.
Better than they use to be, but anyone with talent moves from wing to another position. A player moving back to winger is failure. Valentine Holmes

No Worries wrote:


Yes they are.
Better than they use to be, but anyone with talent moves from wing to another position. A player moving back to winger is failure. Valentine Holmes

I duno mate, I reckon a lot of the time the centre is a worse player than the winger.
Wingers these days are bigger, faster and stronger than just about any other position on the park (yes that was a massive generalisation).
Ball playing wise, Ok, I agree with you. But wingers IMO are generally the best athletes in our game at this point in time.

In a lot of cases, the best winger in the side is one of the most valuable players.

No Worries wrote:


Yes they are.
Better than they use to be, but anyone with talent moves from wing to another position. A player moving back to winger is failure. Valentine Holmes

I honestly can't believe anyone ever thought Val Holmes was a chance of being a success at FB. He is an out and out winger and great there for dominant sides like Qld and Aus, but put him at an average club, and he'd hardly rate a mention. He Is srun of the mill at best.

I duno why people say "hes the best winger in the game" etc. He is a decent finisher, good kick returner. Very good winger on the end of good back lines as you say, but he has shown in the last year and a bit that he is not the star of a back line.

Thats not saying he cant improve, hes still young as fuck, but I am happy he declined newcastle and we ended up with ponga.

Pieman wrote:

I duno mate, I reckon a lot of the time the centre is a worse player than the winger.
Wingers these days are bigger, faster and stronger than just about any other position on the park (yes that was a massive generalisation).
Ball playing wise, Ok, I agree with you. But wingers IMO are generally the best athletes in our game at this point in time.

In a lot of cases, the best winger in the side is one of the most valuable players.

After I hit send I did think of Hayne & GI

You boys are kidding about Holmes' wing ability aren't you. Agreed he's no fullback, but he'd be in the top 2-3 wingers in the game at the moment for sure. He shows what he can do on the back of a decent backline when he plays rep football. He looks great on the wing for Cronulla (so good that they try him at fullback), and despite their success the last few years, their backline has during that time been average at best. Their success in the last few years has been built around Gallen, Fifita, Lewis, Graham and Ennis winning the forward battle, not the likes of Feki or Townsend. Even when Barba and Moloney did their stuff, they were creating for themselves or second rowers/centres, not the winger.

Dip wrote:You boys are kidding about Holmes' wing ability aren't you. Agreed he's no fullback, but he'd be in the top 2-3 wingers in the game at the moment for sure. He shows what he can do on the back of a decent backline when he plays rep football. He looks great on the wing for Cronulla (so good that they try him at fullback), and despite their success the last few years, their backline has during that time been average at best. Their success in the last few years has been built around Gallen, Fifita, Lewis, Graham and Ennis winning the forward battle, not the likes of Feki or Townsend. Even when Barba and Moloney did their stuff, they were creating for themselves or second rowers/centres, not the winger.

He is a very good finisher behind good forwards and with quality halves, for Aus and Qld, nobody doubts it for a second. But I don't think he'd be anything special in an average team, he isn't a gamebreaker himself. Put him at Parra and we are no better off this year, or the Dogs, or Canberra or the Titans or a couple others.

He is a finisher, not a footballer or creator.

Ice wrote:

He is a very good finisher behind good forwards and with quality halves, for Aus and Qld, nobody doubts it for a second. But I don't think he'd be anything special in an average team, he isn't a gamebreaker himself. Put him at Parra and we are no better off this year, or the Dogs, or Canberra or the Titans or a couple others.

He is a finisher, not a footballer or creator.

If you have an average team, no winger is going to solve your problems. If they were creators they wouldn't be wingers. Semi is about the only winger in the last 10 years who has been a creator of note and he isn't in the game anymore. Wingers should be measured by how they go in rep football.

Dip wrote:You boys are kidding about Holmes' wing ability aren't you. Agreed he's no fullback, but he'd be in the top 2-3 wingers in the game at the moment for sure. He shows what he can do on the back of a decent backline when he plays rep football. He looks great on the wing for Cronulla (so good that they try him at fullback), and despite their success the last few years, their backline has during that time been average at best. Their success in the last few years has been built around Gallen, Fifita, Lewis, Graham and Ennis winning the forward battle, not the likes of Feki or Townsend. Even when Barba and Moloney did their stuff, they were creating for themselves or second rowers/centres, not the winger.

Reckon he’s rated that highly? I have the two storm wingers, Rapana, Cotric, Nofoaluma, Feldt, Mansour and fingers Ferguson ahead of him easily even Fusitua id give a mention

I'd add Oates to that list and drop fingers.

Krump wrote:I'd add Oates to that list and drop fingers.

Only added wingers not second rowers

Dip wrote:

If you have an average team, no winger is going to solve your problems. If they were creators they wouldn't be wingers. Semi is about the only winger in the last 10 years who has been a creator of note and he isn't in the game anymore. Wingers should be measured by how they go in rep football.

As I said, pretty darn solid in rep sides but no more special than a dozen others might be if they had a chance. Certainly comfortably in The top 10 wingers currently playing.

Mighty Fishes wrote:

Reckon he’s rated that highly? I have the two storm wingers, Rapana, Cotric, Nofoaluma, Feldt, Mansour and fingers Ferguson ahead of him easily even Fusitua id give a mention

Of the ones you've mentioned I'd say Rapana is the best and Mansour (maybe) is the only other one I'd have ahead of Holmes on the wing, though I do say that I get that most people rank Vunivalu highly, though I personally think he's over-rated. No way would I say Addo-Carr, Cotric, Nofo and Fusitua are on Holmes' level, and in fact I would laugh at the idea of putting the first 3 of those even in the discussion. In rep football Ferguson is fantastic but has been poor at club level for a couple of years. Feldt and Oates are on about the same level as Holmes, but I personally don't think they can do anything better than Holmes (Oates possibly hits it up stronger, but Holmes hits it up as hard as anyone and does it with more speed than Oates).

Ice wrote:

As I said, pretty darn solid in rep sides but no more special than a dozen others might be if they had a chance. Certainly comfortably in The top 10 wingers currently playing.

Easy to say "no more special than a dozen others might be", but the reality is that apart from Boyd and Gagai, no-one has looked as good at rep level as Holmes for a number of years (apart from Ferguson who has looked absolutely aweful plenty of times at club level on the wing - which Holmes hasn't). Oates, Feldt, Morris, Mansour, Hoppa, Tupou, McManus have all been given the same chance as Holmes and not looked anywhere near as good.

Of the players playing wing at the moment I'd probably only put Rapana ahead of him. Similar players would include Oates, Mansour, BMoz, Vunivalu, Ferguson and Feldt, and personally I'd take none of those ahead of him. Might have missed a couple who are close, but again, I'm pretty sure I'd take Holmes over them.

Poor bloke getting a bit of a hard rap here. Sure, he's on the edge of some pretty good players, and reaping the rewards, but the fact is, he converted those opportunities - doesn't he already have some records for most tries playing for Aus or something?

Had plenty of other legendary wingers playing outside other legends that HAVEN'T put those runs on the board. Not sure why he's suddenly in the "anyone plays well outside xxxxxxx" category. He's young, scored bucketloads, and could hopefully go on.

Dip wrote:You boys are kidding about Holmes' wing ability aren't you. Agreed he's no fullback, but he'd be in the top 2-3 wingers in the game at the moment for sure. He shows what he can do on the back of a decent backline when he plays rep football. He looks great on the wing for Cronulla (so good that they try him at fullback), and despite their success the last few years, their backline has during that time been average at best. Their success in the last few years has been built around Gallen, Fifita, Lewis, Graham and Ennis winning the forward battle, not the likes of Feki or Townsend. Even when Barba and Moloney did their stuff, they were creating for themselves or second rowers/centres, not the winger.

This comment is odd IMO dippy. Are you saying he created all his 20 odd tries when they won the comp himself?

Barba, Bird, Maloney, Townsend most certainly helped create a good portion of his tries. He got to score so many because the forwards went forward so well that year.
He has failed big time so far as a fullback, there is nothing stopping him from developing those skills and having another crack though.

Over the last few years he has been one of the top few wingers in the game - but IMO he has never been the best winger in the NRL. This is his chance to have a crack to become the best winger with Semi gone. He is lucky enough to be on the left wing for australia (im not sure for qld?) where everyone who plays seems to excel.

He is fast, strong kick returner, good finisher, good open field runner with good instincts.
You cant definitively say he is better than all the top wingers in the league though IMO because each have their good points. Def in the top few though.

Dip wrote:

Of the ones you've mentioned I'd say Rapana is the best and Mansour (maybe) is the only other one I'd have ahead of Holmes on the wing, though I do say that I get that most people rank Vunivalu highly, though I personally think he's over-rated. No way would I say Addo-Carr, Cotric, Nofo and Fusitua are on Holmes' level, and in fact I would laugh at the idea of putting the first 3 of those even in the discussion. In rep football Ferguson is fantastic but has been poor at club level for a couple of years. Feldt and Oates are on about the same level as Holmes, but I personally don't think they can do anything better than Holmes (Oates possibly hits it up stronger, but Holmes hits it up as hard as anyone and does it with more speed than Oates).

I hate Fergo but he has been close to the best winger over the first couple of rounds. I wouldn't have either in my team if I had to chose two though.

Dip wrote:

Easy to say "no more special than a dozen others might be", but the reality is that apart from Boyd and Gagai, no-one has looked as good at rep level as Holmes for a number of years (apart from Ferguson who has looked absolutely aweful plenty of times at club level on the wing - which Holmes hasn't). Oates, Feldt, Morris, Mansour, Hoppa, Tupou, McManus have all been given the same chance as Holmes and not looked anywhere near as good.

Of the players playing wing at the moment I'd probably only put Rapana ahead of him. Similar players would include Oates, Mansour, BMoz, Vunivalu, Ferguson and Feldt, and personally I'd take none of those ahead of him. Might have missed a couple who are close, but again, I'm pretty sure I'd take Holmes over them.

Cant compare any of the NSW guys who haven't been given a chance outside the Qld Spine and centres for mine. Holmes has done what's been asked of him, no question. I can't knock him I just don't think he is that great but also, I don't think there really are any great wingers in the game currently. Plenty of freakish finishers though.

Ice wrote:

Cant compare any of the NSW guys who haven't been given a chance outside the Qld Spine and centres for mine. Holmes has done what's been asked of him, no question. I can't knock him I just don't think he is that great but also, I don't think there really are any great wingers in the game currently. Plenty of freakish finishers though.

They have when they've played for Australia.

Brutal