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    Australian Squad

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    Oz Sport Mad

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    Re: Australian Squad

    Post by Oz Sport Mad on Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:42 am

    @Pieman wrote:

    The first half of the season he was on the bench, the last few games he was alright, the last game he was great.
    IMO - he is not half the player he use to be. At this stage in both their careers, he should not be getting picked in the australian team over someone like wade graham.
    Oneil - no. Just no. Does not deserve to be there over guys like Hayne, Bird, Leilua, Croker and so on. He is a good player, but fuck me dead he is not one of the elite centres in the league or elite backs.

    The non selection of fifita is fucking weird.

    I hope they stick to it then, never pick another bloke who is under investigation by the integrity unit.


    I'm going to ignore the first part about Thaiday and assume it is merely your anti-Broncos bias flaring up again.

    As for the blokes you've picked over O'Neil, you are deadset kidding yourself.
    Hayne was lucky to get a 1st grade start (and I personally think the Titans were going better without him).
    Bird is still developing and still needs to cement a SOO spot like O'Neil has before I would consider.
    BJ and Croker are solid selections but I personally think Canberra's success was team based rather than individual based, so I would have reservations with selecting either and certainly not over a bloke who has almost been the form centre over the last 2/3rds of the season.

    With Fifita; I get that Greenberg is trying to achieve in terms of raising the standards of discipline among players - but you still need to balance this with reality and also fairness.
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    Pieman

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    Re: Australian Squad

    Post by Pieman on Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:08 am

    @leaguegod wrote:



    with the canberra guys out, i think o'neil has been quite easily australia's next best centre, great year for the cows, played well for QLD, i can't see why him making it is a bad call pieman

    Yeah, its not a look to the future at all, I dont know why they said that.
    1 or 2 blokes at the most fall into that category.
    If they are really looking to the future, why the FUCK wouldnt they pick guys who are still young who also have rep experience - blokes like Graham and Josh Jackson, Jack Bird (Ok hes out injured now).

    If 2016 sam thaiday is better than Ryan James or Jake Trbo or James Tamou or Wade Graham or Corey Parker or Josh Mcguire or Bryce Cartwright, ill shit in my undies at work. Fuck me, luke lewis is a better player than him IMO, not to mention he just wont the CC.

    Oneil is not better than Jack Bird, Hayne, Leilua, Croker, Will Chambers, James Tedesco, Tom Trbo. Even The morris boys are better than him.
    Again, if they were actually looking to the future they would have picked Trbo, Mitchell, Tedesco and co.
    If he is only there because Croker, Leilua and Jack bird are injured then I can handle it I guess, I just dont rate him that highly. I mean, he was ok in melbourne but so is chayse blair, he was terrible when he first went to the cowboys and he just sits outside of Thurston and morgan - he does nothing special IMO.

    They just should not have mentioned the eye on the future thing because its just so inconsistent and well, not true.

    I get that Maloney would be next in line for the 7 or 6 jersey should cronk or thurston pull out but he is 30 and will be 31 by the time the world cup comes around, so why not fucking pick Mitch pearce or Milford, or hunt etc.
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    Pieman

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    Re: Australian Squad

    Post by Pieman on Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:23 am

    @Oz Sport Mad wrote:

    I'm going to ignore the first part about Thaiday and assume it is merely your anti-Broncos bias flaring up again.

    As for the blokes you've picked over O'Neil, you are deadset kidding yourself.
    Hayne was lucky to get a 1st grade start (and I personally think the Titans were going better without him).
    Bird is still developing and still needs to cement a SOO spot like O'Neil has before I would consider.
    BJ and Croker are solid selections but I personally think Canberra's success was team based rather than individual based, so I would have reservations with selecting either and certainly not over a bloke who has almost been the form centre over the last 2/3rds of the season.

    With Fifita; I get that Greenberg is trying to achieve in terms of raising the standards of discipline among players - but you still need to balance this with reality and also fairness.

    Ah yeah, as soon as someone talks reality about the a bronco's player is Anti Bronco bias, thats right. Got nothing to do with the player actually being inconsistent and not even close to the player he used to be. Honestly, tell me he is a better player than wade graham in particular.

    Oneil has cemented a spot in the QLD team has he? lol. He has played 3 SOO games, 1 more than Jack bird, not to mention bird being like 5 years younger than him. If everyone is fit for QLD, Oneil does not make the side - at a very large stretch he gets a wing spot. He has certainly not cemented a spot in the QLD side. Croker has been great for years now, clearly a better player than Justin Oneil. Leilua has fucking dominated this year and he was one of the main reason that canberra were so good this year. Oneil is ok, but he is not the match winner and dominant force that Leilua has been this year.

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    No Worries
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    Re: Australian Squad

    Post by No Worries on Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:39 am

    Considering the excuse they gaave for not picking Gallen & Parker then Thaiday must be giving Mal gobbies.

    Oz Sport Mad

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    Re: Australian Squad

    Post by Oz Sport Mad on Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:03 am

    @Pieman wrote:

    Ah yeah, as soon as someone talks reality about the a bronco's player is Anti Bronco bias, thats right. Got nothing to do with the player actually being inconsistent and not even close to the player he used to be. Honestly, tell me he is a better player than wade graham in particular.

    Oneil has cemented a spot in the QLD team has he? lol. He has played 3 SOO games, 1 more than Jack bird, not to mention bird being like 5 years younger than him. If everyone is fit for QLD, Oneil does not make the side - at a very large stretch he gets a wing spot. He has certainly not cemented a spot in the QLD side. Croker has been great for years now, clearly a better player than Justin Oneil. Leilua has fucking dominated this year and he was one of the main reason that canberra were so good this year. Oneil is ok, but he is not the match winner and dominant force that Leilua has been this year.


    Thaiday is a better player than Wade Graham in particular
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    Pieman

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    Re: Australian Squad

    Post by Pieman on Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:50 am

    Well done Ozzie! I dont think you will find many people outside of the bronco's circle jerk that will agree with that.

    2016 Thaiday is better than 2016 wade graham! hahahahahahahahahha

    Good on you for ignoring all the other valid points too mate Clap
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    Pieman

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    Re: Australian Squad

    Post by Pieman on Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:28 am

    Also, the more I think about it, the more I think that the Fifita and Semi exclusion from the Aus team is fucking bullshit
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    SI
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    Re: Australian Squad

    Post by SI on Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:37 am

    For me it's not bullshit with the fact they are both going through the integrity unit.  Maybe that's a presumed guilty call but there has to be something objective to judge it by.  If you have a case before the integrity unit then you don't get to don the Green and Gold maybe?
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    No Worries
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    Re: Australian Squad

    Post by No Worries on Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:41 am

    @Pieman wrote:Also, the more I think about it, the more I think that the Fifita and Semi exclusion from the Aus team is fucking bullshit

    Players assoc. has asked NRL for a please explain. Along the lines of being treated as guilty without a trial so to speak.

    I don't know much about the Fifita situation but from other than he's opinion differs from the mainstream what has he done wrong ?

    Oh it's despicable he is supporting a killer !!!
    Maybe the bloke is a family friend ? Maybe he knows the bloke is hurting ? Maybe he knows the bloke was drunk and has a problem with alcohol and is out of his sober character, maybe he knows the bloke is seeing a psychiatrist, maybe he knows the bloke tried to off himself over it, maybe he knows it has ripped the blokes family apart, maybe he knows the family are just a regular family and cant afford the legal bills, maybe the bloke needs all the support he can get too.

    Maybe I know fuck all and have no right to have an opinion.


    leaguegod

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    Re: Australian Squad

    Post by leaguegod on Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:55 am

    no one cares that he supports the guy personally, for the reasons you listed, no would/should say he can't be there for him as a mate

    that doesn't mean he should in any way use his profile as a rugby league player to send a message that is only likely to achieve causing more damage to the victims family

    i do like the idea of off-field character playing a role in your selection for the national team but what frustrates me is blake fergusson getting this jersey despite his past indiscretions and without his on-field performances coming close to demanding selection

    Re Semi, i think he should have got the presumption of innocence, the media tried to rub out SKD last year and look what eventuated with his case, if Semi indicates he is pleading not guilty, then that is how the game should treat him until proven otherwise imo
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    Pieman

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    Re: Australian Squad

    Post by Pieman on Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:07 pm

    his message would not be there with the purpose of hurting the family, its there to support a friend. Just because the family or mainstream media does not like it, doesnt mean that the bloke should be excluded from rep teams because of it. Is it in poor taste? Sure, but he wasnt making money from it, he didnt even say anything about it till the media caught on to it. What a terrible reaction from the NRL because of media attention.

    Unless there is stuff that we dont know about, its absolute tripe that he has been excluded from the Aus team - he has a case to sue the nrl for loss of income IMO.

    The semi thing is a fucking rort, how can u not pick him until he is proven guilty??!?!?!?

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    SI
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    Re: Australian Squad

    Post by SI on Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:15 pm

    @Pieman wrote:his message would not be there with the purpose of hurting the family, its there to support a friend. Just because the family or mainstream media does not like it, doesnt mean that the bloke should be excluded from rep teams because of it. Is it in poor taste? Sure, but he wasnt making money from it, he didnt even say anything about it till the media caught on to it. What a terrible reaction from the NRL because of media attention.

    Unless there is stuff that we dont know about, its absolute tripe that he has been excluded from the Aus team - he has a case to sue the nrl for loss of income IMO.

    The semi thing is a fucking rort, how can u not pick him until he is proven guilty??!?!?!?

    An innocent bloke died and Fifita is publically supporting the "man" who was found guilty of the dog act that killed him.  Well done to the NRL for "over reacting" in my book.

    Dip

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    Re: Australian Squad

    Post by Dip on Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:37 pm

    I reckon Fafita is dumb as dog shit for putting it on his arm, and should be held to task for or suspended for what he did at the Junior game last year, but to be honest, I think that losing a test jumper for, as Pieman says, supporting a friend, is not fair. The crime doesn't support punishment IMO. I haven't really kept up to date with it, but is it possible that that in the 4 nations England will be playing one of the guys who actually went to jail for murder/manslaughter or whatever it was?

    I also find it funny that on field suspensions in club games apply to tests and vice versa, but for off field suspensions they want to differentiate between the 2. They are also happy for him to play in the showpiece grand final, but consider it a bad look for him to play for Australia v Scotland on the other side of the world. Just seems inconsistent to me. Not to mention, how long does it take the integrity unit to rule on this? Surely a couple of interviews, a group meeting, and a report can be issued within a week, before they even hop on a plane (it happened several weeks ago).

    As for Radradra, I agree with others. He hasn't been found guilty, and in fact has indicated he will plead not guilty. Laffranchi was allowed to play while a rape case was ongoing, and was ultimately found to be not guilty. Same with SKD, Inglis etc. If they are not pleading guilty then they should have the presumption of innocence and available for selection (not withstanding that I think he should be ineligible for Australia on the basis that he should be playing for Fiji, but that's a completely different argument).
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    Pieman

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    Re: Australian Squad

    Post by Pieman on Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:39 pm

    Im not saying that what he or Fifita has done is right, but just because his opinion differs to yours, mine and mass media does not mean he should be crucified for it. He is supporting a friend (who did something very very disgustingly wrong) publicly. Fifita has not done anything illegal (this time), he has not abused anyone (this time). He had not even spoken about.

    The bloke who committed the crime is serving his time in jail (13 years is not long enough as far as I am concerned), he is allowed to and should have support from friends and family. As I said, if the media never brought it up, then the NRL would never have reacted to it. Fifita even apologised publicly to the Kelly family for if it caused them any distress.

    Fifita has done nothing wrong IMO, its distasteful, dumb, silly, all those kinda things but for him to be left out of the australian side for it, IMO is fucking wrong. Why let him play in the GF?

    I hate the double standards from the NRL too - Greenberg said that its innapropriate to use any club or clothing accessory to support someone with a criminal conviction. Ok, fair enough. But how many blokes with criminal convictions literally play in the NRL wearing club clothing etc. The NRL employs these guys!

    They let a bloke who has been CONVICTED of indecent assault play in the side yet dont let a guy who is supporting a friend (who committed a fucking horrible crime) play. Rubbish. They let a bloke who was accused of belting his Mrs play, they let two blokes who were caught in a cubicle with another player and a girl play in this same team. They let another pisshead who was a walking headline 2/3 years ago play. They are all massive media headlines, why are they allowed to play?

    A warning to fifita over writing that stuff one his strapping would have been enough.

    Personally, I think there is a lot more going on with it than we dont know.

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    Re: Australian Squad

    Post by Dip on Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:43 pm

    Standard has an Issue wrote:
    An innocent bloke died and Fifita is publically supporting the "man" who was found guilty of the dog act that killed him.  Well done to the NRL for "over reacting" in my book.

    While I see where you're coming from, and as I said above, Fafita is an idiot for posting it (if you're an NRL footballer who does that you are bringing attention to it, not the media who points it out or asks about it), to play devils advocate, supporting the guy can be different to supporting what he did. I had a mate in jail for a punch in a bar-room fight where a guy got hurt when he was knocked onto a hard surface. Do a support what he did? No, he did something bad and was rightfully punished. Do I hope he sees the error of what he did, and tries to improve himself as a person while he is in jail? Yes I do, because he is my friend. That is support.

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    Re: Australian Squad

    Post by Dip on Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:48 pm

    @Pieman wrote: they let two blokes who were caught in a cubicle with another player and a girl play in this same team.

    Just on this, the general consensus here about Radradra seems to be that he should be eligible for selection as he is pleading not guilty. There was a pretty strong chorus though that the Broncos trio should have been stood down after the toilet tryst. Is that extremely contradictory? (Not aimed at you Pieman, as I can't remember your opinion on the Broncos 3, just in general)
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    Pieman

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    Re: Australian Squad

    Post by Pieman on Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:49 pm

    Exactly, a long time ago I had a mate assault a cab driver. He was a good friend and a good guy, but for some reason just lost it that night at a cabbie.
    He went to jail for 2/3 years and we supported him. We fucking hated what he did, but he is still a human who needs to know that people are there for him and people care about him.

    Fifita is not suspended from the NRL.
    He is not under police investigation (that we know about)
    He has not been convicted of anything (that we know about)
    He apologised to the family.
    So why the fuck is he not allowed to play for Australia?
    Is he allowed to play for Tonga now?

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    Pieman

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    Re: Australian Squad

    Post by Pieman on Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:56 pm

    @Dip wrote:

    Just on this, the general consensus here about Radradra seems to be that he should be eligible for selection as he is pleading not guilty. There was a pretty strong chorus though that the Broncos trio should have been stood down after the toilet tryst. Is that extremely contradictory? (Not aimed at you Pieman, as I can't remember your opinion on the Broncos 3, just in general)
    To be honest I dont really remember my opinion on it either. Being stood down from a club game or 2 is totally different to not being selected for Australia because of his character I reckon. I wanted Roberts stood down for a game for his actions this year tho.

    I dont think its contradictory, if someone pleads not guilty then it should be business as usual until they are convicted.
    The NRL stands them down because it brings a bad headline. From memory they didnt stand down those blokes even though the girl accused them of rape?
    They stood brett steward down because of the same thing.
    They stood SKD down didnt they?

    If someone does fucking stupid that creates a huge headline and drags the codes name through the mud, should they be suspended for a game or 2? Prob. Thats the prob with this fifita thing, why let him play in the finals then let him play in the GF then stand him down from the Australian team. Either stand him down for everything or nothing.

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    SI
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    Re: Australian Squad

    Post by SI on Thu Oct 06, 2016 1:06 pm

    My best mate of 15 years is currently in for a pretty horrendous crime which I won't go in to (seems convenient to write that I know but it's about the only thing I won't discuss on here).  I have not tried to contact him and I never will.  I have, however, sat down with the victim once and also spoken to said victim multiple times on other occasions.

    What he did does not deserve support.  I personally don't think anyone else who purposely sets out to mortally wound an innocent human being deserves support either, regardless of my relationship to him or her.
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    Re: Australian Squad

    Post by Honeysett on Thu Oct 06, 2016 2:19 pm

    Standard has an Issue wrote:
    An innocent bloke died and Fifita is publically supporting the "man" who was found guilty of the dog act that killed him.  Well done to the NRL for "over reacting" in my book.

    He's not saying "Good on you mate" or "Fuck the police" or anything. He's supporting the man himself.

    I have no problem with it, Fifita is standing by his mate. I think it's a little silly to post it on social media when the guy himself probably won't even be able to see it.

    Fifita's biggest mistake is thinking he needs to make a public statement of support as it's only drawn more negative attention to his mate. He visit him in prison, let him know you're there for him - don't make it public but to rob him on an Australian jersey on that is drawing a loooong bow.

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