2019 NIB Knights

Time for Brown to go, has shown he can put together a nice roster but still can’t coach

Shanbon wrote:Time for Brown to go, has shown he can put together a nice roster but still can’t coach

How much of that roster fell into his lap though? Two of the three key pieces of his team in Pearce and Klemmer ran into issues and broke contract with their former club at a time in the year when the Knights were the only club cashed-up enough to give them what they wanted.

He can only "play" what's in front of him though. I still think this is a year ahead of where most / any thought they'd be rising out of the bottom three. For me, they overachieved early this year and are settling back now.

Be the better for it next year, when you'd really expect the benefits from the scorched earth rebuild to pay dividends.

surmo13 wrote:

How much of that roster fell into his lap though? Two of the three key pieces of his team in Pearce and Klemmer ran into issues and broke contract with their former club at a time in the year when the Knights were the only club cashed-up enough to give them what they wanted.

I think its been shown that most sides can shed unwanted players if they want to fit someone else in.
Brown was still the coach and still had to get the players to sign - which is something that newie had not been able to do for a long long time. Its been shown that he can put together a fucking good fantasy team but is still unable to get them to play to their potential.

I think that if we get 5/6 games into next season and the side hasnt won at least half - they will sack Brown.

I hate what has happened with Ramien. The good coaches work things out with their players if they have differences of opinion. They dont tell the player to fuck off at a crucial time of the season, especially when said player is one of the best young attacking outside backs in the game.

I dont think many people actually tipped the knights to finish any higher than 8th to be honest.

Yep, I think top 8 wasnt must this year,  but they just needed to show some improvement on last year, which they have. They've had good and poor patches, likely any team fighting for 7&8 position.

I think next year will be the real litmus test, with Pearce in his absolutely prime and Ponga a year further developed. They should defo be top 8, if not, then I'd agree Brown probably needs to go.

Pieman wrote:Thoughts on picking up Sezer as our 6? He's been awesome over the last 5-6 weeks at the Raiders - and has been granted a release.

Really, the Raiders have released him? Wow, who do they have to replace him? He has been rock solid the last month or so.

the bloke from england coming next season

I also dont like that we let Cogger go, and we had no real plan for a replacement 6 if the ponga experiment didn't work out.

Pieman wrote:

I think its been shown that most sides can shed unwanted players if they want to fit someone else in.
Brown was still the coach and still had to get the players to sign - which is something that newie had not been able to do for a long long time. Its been shown that he can put together a fucking good fantasy team but is still unable to get them to play to their potential.

well in advance of the next season, sure, in January for a season starting in March? that's a lot tougher, but even if so, i'm sure it's infinitely more appealing to a player in negotiations to be told "here's a million dollars, no muss, no fuss" as opposed to "hey, give us some time, we'll talk to some people and in a couple of weeks, we MAY be able to scrounge together a million dollars", I just wonder if he would've been able to land Pearce & Klemmer if they'd gone off-contract like most everyone else, but to use a couple cliches back-to-back - If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry Christmas and sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.

Brown needs to start face slapping his players on the sideline

Siezer would be a handy addition,but where would that leave Watson, possible 9? Is Levi going to get back in to form like he did earlier in the season, was super dangerous when he ran the ball, but that's gone now

The team is going in the right direction, still think next year is a make or break for plenty at the club

I know a lot of Knights fans seem to hate Levi, but I think a Watson starting then Levi subbing him for 10 or 15 each side of HT would be interesting.

The Knights have signed Jayden Brailey, an excellent pick up, to play 9. If they land Sezer it's a solid spine with Watson needing to come to terms with the fact he is an out an out 14.

surmo13 wrote:

well in advance of the next season, sure, in January for a season starting in March?  that's a lot tougher, but even if so, i'm sure it's infinitely more appealing to a player in negotiations to be told "here's a million dollars, no muss, no fuss" as opposed to "hey, give us some time, we'll talk to some people and in a couple of weeks, we MAY be able to scrounge together a million dollars", I just wonder if he would've been able to land Pearce & Klemmer if they'd gone off-contract like most everyone else, but to use a couple cliches back-to-back - If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry Christmas and sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.

Sure it might have been good timing - It was no secret that we had money to spend. Brown also cleaned out a lot of blokes to free up that money, and then didn't waste it on someone else. He managed to get 2 elite players to sign - which we had not been able to do for the best part of a decade even though we had money - So surely gets some credit for that.. But yes Fact is, Brown brought those players to the club and the circumstances helped. Just like almost every signing ever.

And yep - Watson is an out and out 14. Starts in the halves or fullback if there is an injury, covers running forward and outside backs in case of injury too.
Levi has been deadset average for his entire career - barring about 5 weeks where was unstoppable this season. He then got hurt and never found that running game again. Someone like Sezer would be ideal - I reckon we will end up with Tyone Roberts or someone again though.

If we Anthony Griffin as coach that'll do me.

Honeysett wrote:If we Anthony Griffin as coach that'll do me.

Not sure why there is some negativity around Griffin.

The bloke was successful at both the Broncos and Panthers; and I suspect he'd go great at the Knights.

As for Browny; not sure if he is just being really petty or if he attempting to salvage his career as a coach, by having a dig at Bennett.

Fact is he was punted for not being able to deliver, despite the club (i.e. not just him) being able to recruit one of the best teams in the comp on paper.

Nathan Brown wrote:There's always going to be new jobs for people like me because there's plenty of selfish coaches that make short-term decisions and ruin footy clubs

Any guesses ?

Hardly one of the best teams in the comp on paper. And where has he had a dig at Bennett. Brown inherited a terrible, aging roster that was paid overs and only ever had a short term focus with a culture that every acknowledges was absolutely 4th rate. That falls heavily in the previous coach and if that is Bennet, so be it, he did it when he left the Broncos, he did it when he left the Dragons and it's happened again at the Broncos. Seibolds Broncos started the year woefully, but the longer the season has gone and the more influence he has had, the better the Broncos are going. Conversely, the more influence Bennet seems to be having at Souths, the worse they seem to be going.

Bennett can coach a star studded team to glory, no one would ever dispute that, but gee whizz he leaves a trail of destruction in his wake when he departs.

As for Brown, he got stuck with one of the toughest assignments in the game and it's taken a number of years to change the culture and roster and get Newie looking something like the Succesful Newcastle of years past. Will be very interesting to see who comes in and how they go. I think Griffin would and could take them to finals footy but I'm not convinced he is a premiership coach.

No Worries wrote:

Any guesses ?

Well it's a dig at Bennett at the Knights (and you could argue he did the same at the Dragons), but could apply to a few... Hasler basically invented backend contracts so he could have a great squad and success, then leave the team up the creek at both Manly then the Bulldogs.

Ice wrote:Hardly one of the best teams in the comp on paper.  And where has he had a dig at Bennett. Brown inherited a terrible, aging roster that was paid overs and only ever had a short term focus with a culture that every acknowledges was absolutely 4th rate. That falls heavily in the previous coach and if that is Bennet, so be it, he did it when he left the Broncos, he did it when he left the Dragons and it's happened again at the Broncos. Seibolds Broncos started the year woefully, but the longer the season has gone and the more influence he has had, the better the Broncos are going. Conversely, the more influence Bennet seems to be having at Souths, the worse they seem to be going.

Bennett can coach a star studded team to glory, no one would ever dispute that, but gee whizz he leaves a trail of destruction in his wake when he departs.

As for Brown, he got stuck with one of the toughest assignments in the game and it's taken a number of years to change the culture and roster and get Newie looking something like the Succesful Newcastle of years past.  Will be very interesting to see who comes in and how they go. I think Griffin would and could take them to finals footy but I'm not convinced he is a premiership coach.

Bennett left at the end of 2014. Then after 4 rounds of 2015 (under Rick Stone), the Knights were undefeated and top of the table. Bit hard to say Bennet left them with a terrible roster when it got to top of the table 1/6 of the way through the season. That they only won the same number of games in the remaining 5/6 of the season really indicates thats on who was running and coaching the club in 2015. Then Brown inherits the team and proceeds to only 1 win game in 2016 (16th), 5 games in 2017 (16th), and 9 games in 2018 (11th). They are currently 10th and at long odds to make the finals. Seems like Brown is making little improvement at all. Nobody blames the 2014 coaches of the teams that finished below the Knights that year (Tigers, Titans, Raiders and Sharks) on their coach that year for their performances in 2019. Seems like just a Newcastle thing. Weird. I mean the typical NRL contract is 2-3 years, and 5 seasons later Bennett is still to blame? Please.

I mean look at Cronulla in comparison. Another club that a decade ago had financial problems and was down the bottom of the table. They finished 15th in 2009, 14th in 2010 and 13th in 2011, but since then have made the final 6 of 7 seasons, including a premiership. The Knights are so far off a premiership it's not funny, and Brown is the only one who seems to think going from wooden spoon to wooden spoon to wooden spoon to 11th to probably about 11th is rebuilding a team.

When Bennett left Canberra the Raiders won 2 of the next 3 titles. When he left the Broncos they made the prelim final 2 of the next 3 years. He left the Dragons with a roster that included Matt Cooper, Ben Creagh, Jack De Belin, Ben Hornby, Trent Merrin, Brett Morris, Jason Nightingale, Matt Prior, Beau Scott (all regular internationals or origin players), as well as Dean Young, Michael Weyman, and Jamie Soward who were all origin players. The Knights in 2018 had at least 13 players who have now played origin or internationals, as well as young guns like Joey Leilua and Joseph Tanpine.

Maybe, just maybe, guys like Paul McGregor and Nathan Brown can't coach as well as they think they can. Brown in particular seems to want to blame everyone else and cover up that he hasn't gone that well. Probably based out of jealousy that his successor at the Dragons won a minor premiership then a premiership when he could only finish 7th (and 13th the year before) with a team containing Matt Cooper, Ben Creagh, Matt Cooper, Ben Hornby, the Morris Brothers, Jason Nightingale, Jason Poore, Matt Prior, Jason Ryles, Wendell Sailor, Beau Scott, Jamie Soward and Dean Young.

Dip wrote:

Bennett left at the end of 2014. Then after 4 rounds of 2015 (under Rick Stone), the Knights were undefeated and top of the table. Bit hard to say Bennet left them with a terrible roster when it got to top of the table 1/6 of the way through the season. That they only won the same number of games in the remaining 5/6 of the season really indicates thats on who was running and coaching the club in 2015. Then Brown inherits the team and proceeds to only 1 win game in 2016 (16th), 5 games in 2017 (16th), and 9 games in 2018 (11th). They are currently 10th and at long odds to make the finals. Seems like Brown is making little improvement at all. Nobody blames the 2014 coaches of the teams that finished below the Knights that year (Tigers, Titans, Raiders and Sharks) on their coach that year for their performances in 2019. Seems like just a Newcastle thing. Weird. I mean the typical NRL contract is 2-3 years, and 5 seasons later Bennett is still to blame? Please.

I mean look at Cronulla in comparison. Another club that a decade ago had financial problems and was down the bottom of the table. They finished 15th in 2009, 14th in 2010 and 13th in 2011, but since then have made the final 6 of 7 seasons, including a premiership. The Knights are so far off a premiership it's not funny, and Brown is the only one who seems to think going from wooden spoon to wooden spoon to wooden spoon to 11th to probably about 11th is rebuilding a team.

When Bennett left Canberra the Raiders won 2 of the next 3 titles. When he left the Broncos they made the prelim final 2 of the next 3 years. He left the Dragons with a roster that included Matt Cooper, Ben Creagh, Jack De Belin, Ben Hornby, Trent Merrin, Brett Morris, Jason Nightingale, Matt Prior, Beau Scott (all regular internationals or origin players), as well as Dean Young, Michael Weyman, and Jamie Soward who were all origin players. The Knights in 2018 had at least 13 players who have now played origin or internationals, as well as young guns like Joey Leilua and Joseph Tanpine.

Maybe, just maybe, guys like Paul McGregor and Nathan Brown can't coach as well as they think they can. Brown in particular seems to want to blame everyone else and cover up that he hasn't gone that well. Probably based out of jealousy that his successor at the Dragons won a minor premiership then a premiership when he could only finish 7th (and 13th the year before) with a team containing Matt Cooper, Ben Creagh, Matt Cooper, Ben Hornby, the Morris Brothers, Jason Nightingale, Jason Poore, Matt Prior, Jason Ryles, Wendell Sailor, Beau Scott, Jamie Soward and Dean Young.

Don't think I have to add too much more to that to be honest.
Regardless of Ice's long running bias against Bennett (which probably stems from Nathan Brown-esque jealousy), you can't argue with cold, hard facts.

As a fan of a team that has had Bennett leave my club twice, I certainly never felt like he left the place in a state of disarray.
In 2009, we were leading the comp going into Origin - and that is with Ivan Henjack.
Arguably this season hasn't been great but I blame the club for poor off field decisions, more so than Bennett.

Newcastle should feel the same way about 2015 as I feel about 2019.
The club let the fans down and Bennett doesn't get the credit he deserves for the time he was there.

Anyways, credit where credit is due for Browny, as he appears to have created a widely believed myth (amongst simpleton fans at least) that he inherited an impossible task.
Clearly Newcastle management has seen otherwise, hence their decision.
But no doubt some other club will hire him (probably the Tigers....as their 7th simultaneously contracted coach) to 're-build their roster' and take them to 'the cusp of finals glory' i.e. where the Tigers are anyway.