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    RIP Australian Cricket

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    leaguegod

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    Post by leaguegod on Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:07 am

    @SI wrote:

    This.  Shit cunt.  Put ya hand up and then shut up.  

    this is probably the only thing he did that doesn't bother me, if others played a role, they should be punished too

    i see now its likely gonna be just smith and warner but i find it hard to believe that starc & lyon wouldn't have been included in the discussions


    for me, smith, warner and anyone else in the leadership group, should never be able to captain our team in any format again

    + the whole leadership group & bancroft should serve fairly significant suspensions

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    Post by No Worries on Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:31 am

    Lyon will be the next captain of Australia
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    Post by Mighty Fishes on Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:34 am

    How lucky are England no one is talking about being bowled out for 50 something
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    Post by Rippin and Tearin on Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:36 am

    @Mighty Fishes wrote:How lucky are England no one is talking about being bowled out for 50 something
    Haha, I know, even in NZ that has been overshadowed by the Ozzies cheating !!

    Lyon? I figured he would have been part of the leadership group that hatched the plan to cheat....
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    Dip

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    Post by Dip on Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:17 am

    I'll start by saying I believe all ball tampering is pre-meditated, and is terrible, so should have a severe penalty. I also think this is at the higher end of the ball tampering spectrum, so Smith should cop more than most.

    Having said that, what is a fair penalty? I'm happy with him having to live with the stigma of being a ball tamperer for the rest of his career, but if guys like Faf, who have been caught doing it twice, and the lolly incident etc only warrant say a 1 test suspension, talk of 12 month bans etc are rediculous. I personally think Ball Tampering should be like a 5 test suspension or something like that, but compared to precedents, one test by the ICC is probably consistent. I do hope however, that CA take the high road and double or triple the ICC suspension and make it 2-3 tests. I would be happy for Smith to keep the captaincy if he gets an extra suspension like this. If they stick with the 1 game suspension the ICC have given, then I think he needs to be stripped of the captaincy, at least for 12 months.

    I have generally been pleased that almost everyone I know has not tried to make excuses for him, and basically said "Fuck them. They deserve everything they get, and if they have to drop the coach and half the team for the last deciding test match then that should happen", which is a bit different to a lot of what appears to come from some other countries media.

    I feel dirty and embarrassed about the disgraceful, pathetic team I have supported since I was about 5. Now I know how NSW Origin supporters must feel.
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    Post by Dip on Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:32 am

    Oh yeah, Lehmann has to go too. I can't accept that he didn't know and condone it. He should fall on his sword.
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    Post by Krump on Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:43 am

    @Dip wrote:Oh yeah, Lehmann has to go too. I can't accept that he didn't know and condone it. He should fall on his sword.
    I don't understand the reasoning that Lehmann has to go but Smith doesn't? Fuck em both of imo.
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    Post by Dip on Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:02 am

    @Krump wrote:
    I don't understand the reasoning that Lehmann has to go but Smith doesn't? Fuck em both of imo.

    My personal opinion is that the coach is "higher" up the ladder than the captain and is the guy most responsible for the team culture, so I hold him to a higher standard, and therefore believe his penalty should be stronger. Furthermore, I don't think a game suspension really does much for an off field member of the organisation (and how do you police it anyway? Easy to see a player isn't on the field, but how do you know a coach isn't watching on the TV and calling through advice and instructions). Players missing tests is a big deal, but coaches - not so much of a penalty IMO.

    I expect more from a 50 year old than a 30 year old as well, but that is only a small consideration.
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    Post by No Worries on Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:38 am

    While on the topic of cheating Smiths, don't forget the Australian rugby league captain signed 2 contracts and he didn't miss a single game.
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    Post by Oz Sport Mad on Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:21 pm

    @Dip wrote:

    My personal opinion is that the coach is "higher" up the ladder than the captain and is the guy most responsible for the team culture, so I hold him to a higher standard, and therefore believe his penalty should be stronger. Furthermore, I don't think a game suspension really does much for an off field member of the organisation (and how do you police it anyway? Easy to see a player isn't on the field, but how do you know a coach isn't watching on the TV and calling through advice and instructions). Players missing tests is a big deal, but coaches - not so much of a penalty IMO.

    I expect more from a 50 year old than a 30 year old as well, but that is only a small consideration.

    I agree with your first post re: Smith.

    Looking ahead we have a tour of Pommyland (ODI's and T20's) he can sit out and then also sit him out for the tour of Zimbabwe.
    Bangers tour Aus after that but banning him from that may be too extreme - wouldn't play until the end of the year otherwise and as you have suggested relevant precedents haven't been dealt with that harshly.
    I think the reaction, backlash and damage to his reputation on top of that will be punishment enough.

    As for Lehmann, I would agree but I'm not 100% convinced he was involved.
    Pretty fair to say that if he was, it will come out sooner rather than later, so I struggle to believe he'd sit on it and let his players cop the brunt of the punishment.
    Career suicide otherwise.

    To me it reeks of the type of discussion that players who have been blinded by desperation/ambition would have, more so than a directive from above.
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    Post by ryno_ on Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:41 pm

    @Oz Sport Mad wrote:
    As for Lehmann, I would agree but I'm not 100% convinced he was involved.
    Pretty fair to say that if he was, it will come out sooner rather than later, so I struggle to believe he'd sit on it and let his players cop the brunt of the punishment.
    Career suicide otherwise.

    Boof was shown on the radio to the 12th man just before Bancroft got the message to hide the sandpaper. He knew and was helping them try cover it up.
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    Post by leaguegod on Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:46 pm

    yeah i did like lehman, but i can't buy him having no knowledge, may not have been his idea but he would have known
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    Post by No Worries on Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:52 pm

    @ryno_ wrote:

    Boof was shown on the radio to the 12th man just before Bancroft got the message to hide the sandpaper. He knew and was helping them try cover it up.

    A radio transmits sound not pictures, you can't be shown on a radio and why has talking to Billy Birmingham got to do with anything ? I had to read this 4 times before I understood what you were saying.
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    Oz Sport Mad

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    Post by Oz Sport Mad on Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:03 pm

    @ryno_ wrote:

    Boof was shown on the radio to the 12th man just before Bancroft got the message to hide the sandpaper. He knew and was helping them try cover it up.

    You reckon?

    Admittedly, I didn't watch it live and only saw that footage (46 times) on Fox news, so don't really have a good grasp on the timing but I am not 100% sure based on Handscomb's reaction.

    As I side before, if he is involved I'm fairly sure it will come out sooner rather than later; and if so, he will be punted accordingly.
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    Post by Rippin and Tearin on Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:27 pm

    @ryno_ wrote:

    Boof was shown on the radio to the 12th man just before Bancroft got the message to hide the sandpaper. He knew and was helping them try cover it up.

    Yup, this was what I was alluding to in my earlier post. The brief news articles I've seen on this suggest Lehman was involved in trying to cover this up ( a radio call to the 12th man advising that Bancroft needed to get rid of the evidence because cameras had caught him in the act...). I imagine they will try and cover this one up though as it'll be hard to prove. They have about 48 hours to collude and create a story to protect Lehman before the head of the integrity unit turns up in SA and questions them all.

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    Post by Krump on Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:30 pm

    @Rippin and Tearin wrote:

    Yup, this was what I was alluding to in my earlier post. The brief news articles I've seen on this suggest Lehman was involved in trying to cover this up ( a radio call to the 12th man advising that Bancroft needed to get rid of the evidence because cameras had caught him in the act...). I imagine they will try and cover this one up though as it'll be hard to prove. They have about 48 hours to collude and create a story to protect Lehman before the head of the integrity unit turns up in SA and questions them all.

    I can't see CA trying a cover up, heads are gonna roll.
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    Post by Rippin and Tearin on Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:31 pm

    All of this also calls into question how often Smith and co have done this without getting caught over the last few years. The fact that it apparently come up over a lunchtime conversation seems like it could be a pretty normal thing they engage in. Dirty MFs!!!
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    Post by Rippin and Tearin on Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:36 pm

    @Dip wrote:I'll start by saying I believe all ball tampering is pre-meditated, and is terrible, so should have a severe penalty. I also think this is at the higher end of the ball tampering spectrum, so Smith should cop more than most.

    Having said that, what is a fair penalty? I'm happy with him having to live with the stigma of being a ball tamperer for the rest of his career, but if guys like Faf, who have been caught doing it twice, and the lolly incident etc only warrant say a 1 test suspension, talk of 12 month bans etc are rediculous. I personally think Ball Tampering should be like a 5 test suspension or something like that, but compared to precedents, one test by the ICC is probably consistent. I do hope however, that CA take the high road and double or triple the ICC suspension and make it 2-3 tests. I would be happy for Smith to keep the captaincy if he gets an extra suspension like this. If they stick with the 1 game suspension the ICC have given, then I think he needs to be stripped of the captaincy, at least for 12 months.

    I have generally been pleased that almost everyone I know has not tried to make excuses for him, and basically said "Fuck them. They deserve everything they get, and if they have to drop the coach and half the team for the last deciding test match then that should happen", which is a bit different to a lot of what appears to come from some other countries media.

    I feel dirty and embarrassed about the disgraceful, pathetic team I have supported since I was about 5. Now I know how NSW Origin supporters must feel.

    Mate, do you really think an arse like Steve Smith is going to give two hoots about that? He won't give a flying fuck not to mention he's well set him self up for like with his career (no matter how tainted it may be now) and ironically he's probably just upped the value of his first book deal by a few $mill too....

    My point is, these sorts of cheating pricks only care about themselves, $, and winning at all costs. Morales, doing the right thing, and worrying about what kind of legacy you leave and whether or not you leave the world in a better place than when you found it (like the way most normal people think) is WAY WAY down the list, if on it at all!
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    Post by Rippin and Tearin on Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:38 pm

    @Krump wrote:
    I can't see CA trying a cover up, heads are gonna roll.

    You reckon they voluntarily hang their coach out to dry based on circumstantial evidence? I reckon Lehman gets away with it aye. But I hope you are right!
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    Post by Mighty Fishes on Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:19 pm

    @Rippin and Tearin wrote:

    Mate, do you really think an arse like Steve Smith is going to give two hoots about that? He won't give a flying fuck not to mention he's well set him self up for like with his career (no matter how tainted it may be now) and ironically he's probably just upped the value of his first book deal by a few $mill too....

    My point is, these sorts of cheating pricks only care about themselves, $, and winning at all costs. Morales, doing the right thing, and worrying about what kind of legacy you leave and whether or not you leave the world in a better place than when you found it (like the way most normal people think) is WAY WAY down the list, if on it at all!

    What a crack up!! I was thinking the same thing about his book!

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