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    State of Origin Game 2

    Pieman
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    Post by Pieman on Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:38 pm

    @Ice wrote:

    Like i said, 2-0 without him!! It doesn't get any worse.  I'd have taken the risk and i might have been down 2-0 just like Daley, but at least I'd know whether Cartwright was up to Origin football or not and would be better prepared for next year.

    Exactly right. This is my reasoning too.
    We lose anyway, might as well lose blooding some young talent, just like QLD did with Smith, Thuston, Slater and co.

    Tom Trbo is ready for Origin IMO. I would leave Mansour or Fergo out of the side for him in a heartbeat. That kid is something special.
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    Dip

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    Post by Dip on Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:05 pm

    Look I agree that all spear tackles like Thaiday's should be a higher grading than the grade 3 he got, but I think it's ironic that the call comes from the guy who last month was able to play a test after escaping a charge for striking the face of an opponent with his forearm, and a couple of years back missed only 4 club games after pleading guilty to taking performance enhancing drugs and getting a heavily backdated suspension.

    Later Gallen probably insinuates he is not a star player but JT is (well that is right), while at the same time questioning the integrity of the MRC.

    http://wwos.nine.com.au/2016/06/28/08/57/thaiday-should-ve-been-hit-harder-gallen

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    Ice

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    Post by Ice on Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:49 pm

    @Pieman wrote:

    Exactly right. This is my reasoning too.
    We lose anyway, might as well lose blooding some young talent, just like QLD did with Smith, Thuston, Slater and co.

    Tom Trbo is ready for Origin IMO. I would leave Mansour or Fergo out of the side for him in a heartbeat. That kid is something special.

    I think Mansour has been really solid and certainly has his best well in front of him, I definitely wouldn't drop him for TTurbo on the back of a season of half a season or so of ok footy and some flashes of brilliance. That said, I'd take him before Fergo.
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    Ice

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    Post by Ice on Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:25 pm

    Its looking more and more likely Reynolds and Cordner will be right for game 3 so I think based on what we are hearing from Daley the team will be something like this:

    1. Moylan
    2. Mansour
    3. Jennings
    4. Walker/Morris/Dugan - not really sure about this spot, but one player it won't be now is BJ Leilua given he has been quoted as saying that NSW have got the team selections wrong. Seriously, why would you say that as a player. If I'm Daley, or even if I'm me, which i am, I'm not picking a bloke who says that. Even if I personally agree with him. He is right in the mix, so you just can't say it. Its OK for fans or retired players to have a crack, but if you are in contention, then just let your footy do the talking. For mine, if true, its almost a blacklist offence.
    5. Ferguson
    6. Maloney
    7. Reynolds
    8. Woods
    9. Farah
    10. Gallen
    11. Jackson
    12. Cordner
    13. G Bird

    14. J.Bird
    15. Frizell
    16. Klemmer
    16. Fifita/Tamou

    I think the only variation on this will be maybe JBird replaces Walker at right centre, and neither Walker, Morris or Dugan make the side. Meaning our best forward from game 1 (Cordner) and our best from game 2 (Frizell) both play and Walker misses out, with both Fifita and Tamou on the bench.

    Personally, If I could only make one change from game 2, it would be Teddy in for Fergo ahead of anything else or maybe even Teddy in for Walker with Fergo pushing into right centre and Walker out.
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    leaguegod

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    Post by leaguegod on Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:57 pm

    agreed that if i could bring in one guy, it'd be teddy, even if it was J bird to right centre, moylan to utility and Teddy to fullback

    most players thrown up have question marks but if teddy got a fair crack over the next few years, i'd be shocked if he wasn't an out and out success at that level
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    Ice

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    Post by Ice on Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:11 pm

    @leaguegod wrote:agreed that if i could bring in one guy, it'd be teddy, even if it was J bird to right centre, moylan to utility and Teddy to fullback

    most players thrown up have question marks but if teddy got a fair crack over the next few years, i'd be shocked if he wasn't an out and out success at that level

    For mine, Moylan is a 1 or a 6. I don't think he has the utilty value of JBird. But i see no problem playing a top flight FB on the wing and I think Teddy is much better suited there than Moylan. They did it with Hayne and i think both Moylan and Teddy have silky ball skills so it gives you option to mix them around if required or if injury strikes somewhere if Bird is on the bench. I just like the idea of having Mansour and Teddy on the wings outside Moylan, because of those three, you want to kick to Moylan more, which means more qld kicks directed down the middle of the field, meaning on kick returns, Moylan should have options to link with either hsi left or right winger where he has two guys that bust plenty of tackles and carry the ball back hard.
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    leaguegod

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    Post by leaguegod on Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:51 pm

    probably a fair call ice, i guess i'm not sure moylan is a long term origin player to be completely honest, so i just wanna get teddy in the #1 sooner, rather then later
    Pieman
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    Post by Pieman on Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:58 pm

    @Ice wrote:

    I think Mansour has been really solid and certainly has his best well in front of him, I definitely wouldn't drop him for TTurbo on the back of a season of half a season or so of ok footy and some flashes of brilliance.  That said, I'd take him before Fergo.
    Mansour went well, I agree. He is also 26 now, and IMO he is not half the footy player Trbo is (or will be). Sure mansour is strong and quick but that is about it. I would also 100% take Ttrbo him over Fergo today tho.
    Yep its only been about a season of footy from Trbo - but its enough for me to pick him. He is just that good IMO. Yeah, Mansour is a good winger and people wouldnt like leaving him out, but I would if they picked someone like Trbo or Latrell mitchell, or tedesco over him.

    Im not totally sold on Moylan being a long term origin player too. I think if he didnt play under gould he wouldnt be getting half the raps that he is.
    I think tedesco is the more dangerous fullback, safer and a better defender. Moylan does not have the speed, pace, size or strength to be a good bench player.
    For mine, moylan wouldnt be in the side unless it was at 6 - and i wouldnt pick him there unless he was playing there for the panthers - which he wont be any time soon IMO, with the emergence of Martin/Cleary/Carty as a 6.
    I do prefer Moylan at FB over dugan though.
    Archer
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    Post by Archer on Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:20 pm

    @Ice you really think BJ's statement is a hanging offence? To me it equates to "I'm better than the guys they picked" which is probably a pretty arrogant thing to say but 1) he's probably right and 2) most guys at that level probably think that about themselves even if they won't say it.

    Personally I'd have a word with him about keeping those thoughts to himself but I wouldn't be shunning him from selection for it. For all we know the reporter probably goaded him into the statement. It's not as though these guys are picked for their intelligence and media savvy , a good reporter can probably get most guys to make a similar remark (or close enough to go with the story anyway)
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    Post by Guest on Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:25 pm

    Leilua said NSW selected the wrong side? The blokes right. Should be named for game 3 for saying what we are all thinking.
    Archer
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    Post by Archer on Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:48 pm

    http://www.canberratimes.com.au/rugby-league/canberra-raiders/snubbed-canberra-raiders-centre-joey-leilua-says-nsw-picked-wrong-team-20160627-gpsrnk.html

    Some Snippets wrote:"I think they picked the wrong team, there's a few guys who missed out but there's not much anyone can do about it now, the series is gone," Leilua said after Sunday's win over Gold Coast.
    "If they don't want me in there, then I won't be in there [for Origin III]. I've just got to keep playing good footy for this team and see where I can go."
    The 24-year-old backed Stuart's move to turn down an invitation two weeks ago to head into camp at Coffs Harbour with the team.
    "He was right to do it, I should be at the club," Leilua said.
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    Dip

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    Post by Dip on Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:33 pm

    @Pieman wrote:

    Exactly right. This is my reasoning too.
    We lose anyway, might as well lose blooding some young talent, just like QLD did with Smith, Thuston, Slater and co.


    The sentiment is right but JT debuted game 1 in 2006, and Slater debuted in game 1 not a dead rubber.
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    Oz Sport Mad

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    Post by Oz Sport Mad on Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:29 am

    @Dip wrote:

    The sentiment is right but JT debuted game 1 in 2006, and Slater debuted in game 1 not a dead rubber.

    Exactly.

    I tend to think it would do more harm than good blooding these blokes into a team with such an ingrained losing culture.
    NSW should be starting afresh in 2017 under a different regime.

    Realistically the blokes that are on the way out will have about as much hope of winning Game 3 as the young blokes - and to be honest they haven't been that far off.....so let them have a final chance at fluking a win.

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    Post by No Worries on Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:41 am

    Give the selfish old timers their losing swan song and bring in the new blokes unaffected by the toxic leadership team currently in place.
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    Oz Sport Mad

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    Post by Oz Sport Mad on Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:36 am

    @Archer wrote:@Ice you really think BJ's statement is a hanging offence? To me it equates to "I'm better than the guys they picked" which is probably a pretty arrogant thing to say but 1) he's probably right and 2) most guys at that level probably think that about themselves even if they won't say it.

    Personally I'd have a word with him about keeping those thoughts to himself but I wouldn't be shunning him from selection for it. For all we know the reporter probably goaded him into the statement. It's not as though these guys are picked for their intelligence and media savvy , a good reporter can probably get most guys to make a similar remark (or close enough to go with the story anyway)

    To me BJ talks the way he plays the game....generally on the edge of crossing the line and often over it.

    I'm not surprised by his comments at all - I tend to disagree with him somewhat but I'm not surprised.
    Honeysett
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    Post by Honeysett on Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:42 am

    The way I see it let's look at who's going to be there for 5 years and who isn't and start and build the future around them. What we have done in the past hasn't worked so time for a change. We won the 2014 series on the back of Hayne, sure a few years if the bounce of the ball goes our way we win but they didn't and we don't want to be cutting it that fine because QLD are going to win those tight battles due to their talent.

    Guys like Tedesco, Moylan, Turbo brothers, W Graham, Frizell, A Reynolds, Cartwright, J Bird they're all going to be there for years to come so let's get them into the system ASAP. We don't need the likes of G Bird, Gallen etc we have enough young talent there to get them battle ready especially before QLD start doing it before us.

    Teddy at FB
    Mansour and Tom Trbojevic the wingers
    J Bird and Dugan in the centres
    Moylan/A Rey the halves
    Fifita, Klemmer, Jake Trbojevic, Woods the prop rotation
    Peats in the 9.
    Frizell, W Graham, Josh Jackson the starting 2nd rowers
    Peachey the utility.
    Cartwright off the bench

    Doesn't need to happen Game 3 but that should be our future.
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    Oz Sport Mad

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    Post by Oz Sport Mad on Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:11 pm

    @Honeysett wrote:The way I see it let's look at who's going to be there for 5 years and who isn't and start and build the future around them. What we have done in the past hasn't worked so time for a change. We won the 2014 series on the back of Hayne, sure a few years if the bounce of the ball goes our way we win but they didn't and we don't want to be cutting it that fine because QLD are going to win those tight battles due to their talent.

    Guys like Tedesco, Moylan, Turbo brothers, W Graham, Frizell, A Reynolds, Cartwright, J Bird they're all going to be there for years to come so let's get them into the system ASAP. We don't need the likes of G Bird, Gallen etc we have enough young talent there to get them battle ready especially before QLD start doing it before us.

    Teddy at FB
    Mansour and Tom Trbojevic the wingers
    J Bird and Dugan in the centres
    Moylan/A Rey the halves
    Fifita, Klemmer, Jake Trbojevic, Woods the prop rotation
    Peats in the 9.
    Frizell, W Graham, Josh Jackson the starting 2nd rowers
    Peachey the utility.
    Cartwright off the bench

    Doesn't need to happen Game 3 but that should be our future.

    I agree with the general sentiment and a team like that for Game 1 of 2017 with a new coach and a fresh attitude would worry me as a QLDer.

    I personally have a few question marks over some of the guys that have been earmarked (by a lot of you blokes) as stalwarts for years to come....but the benefit of implementing the change in 2017 means that you have the remainder of 2016 and the start of 2017 for guys to put forth their case.

    I'd even appoint the new coach directly after this series so that they have time to develop their approach and let the players know that there is an opportunity to start afresh and get on board.
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    Post by Honeysett on Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:27 pm

    @Oz Sport Mad wrote:

    I agree with the general sentiment and a team like that for Game 1 of 2017 with a new coach and a fresh attitude would worry me as a QLDer.

    I personally have a few question marks over some of the guys that have been earmarked (by a lot of you blokes) as stalwarts for years to come....but the benefit of implementing the change in 2017 means that you have the remainder of 2016 and the start of 2017 for guys to put forth their case.

    I'd even appoint the new coach directly after this series so that they have time to develop their approach and let the players know that there is an opportunity to start afresh and get on board.

    Who do you have question marks over mate? There's a few guys that may not be great at Origin level but until you get them in and give them a go you never know. I think A Reynolds is going to prove he has what it takes, Frizell if he can replicate that effort from Game 1 will win best player of the series one year. The Turbo bros are so far down to earth I don't think anything would faze them.
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    Oz Sport Mad

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    Post by Oz Sport Mad on Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:35 pm

    @Honeysett wrote:

    Who do you have question marks over mate? There's a few guys that may not be great at Origin level but until you get them in and give them a go you never know. I think A Reynolds is going to prove he has what it takes, Frizell if he can replicate that effort from Game 1 will win best player of the series one year. The Turbo bros are so far down to earth I don't think anything would faze them.

    Yeah the Turbo Bros are rock solid and I would have no qualms with banking on them for the future.

    I'm not sold on ARey, JBird or Moylan in the halves (although I think he has the potential to be a good half but I would want him to have played at least half a year at club before throwing him into the SOO arena as a half).
    Also not completely sold on Graham or Peachey to be honest but both are good players and are low risk in terms of where they would fit into the team.
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    Post by No Worries on Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:39 pm

    @Honeysett wrote:

    Who do you have question marks over mate? There's a few guys that may not be great at Origin level but until you get them in and give them a go you never know. I think A Reynolds is going to prove he has what it takes, Frizell if he can replicate that effort from Game 1 will win best player of the series one year. The Turbo bros are so far down to earth I don't think anything would faze them.

    Blocker said that about Walker before game 2.

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