Loopholers Anonymous - a wretched hive of scum and villainy

Hi Guys its been a year since my last loop

Just wanted to confirm that if I leave everything in its current position, I'll get Havilis score.

wolfking wrote:I put Whitehead in my number 18 spot. Question, I have TPJ at 17, if he doesn't play, the only player left I can use is Croker. Surely I'd have to put Croker in the 17 and give him a shot to come up with more than 20 points?

Scores of 25, 34, 30 and 15. Sea Eagles play after Broncos so you can always wait to see if TPJ will play. Croker is a good bet to get a little more or a little less. Doesn't seem like a huge risk to me.

blaustinpowers wrote:Hi Guys its been a year since my last loop

Just wanted to confirm that if I leave everything in its current position, I'll get Havilis score.

Pookus McFly wrote:Just realised i can potentially double loop this week. Kennar into 17 with Havili 18 gives me his 46, but i can also put Rochow into 19 and get a look at his score, using TPJ (if he is out) in the FRF 13 if he goes alright. So whose score should i miss out on if i need to loop Rochow- Lodge or Kikau??

TPJ could also be on your bench at 16 if Rochow was at 19.

Anyways, this is where I don't like loopholing a lot. 3 similar players with the most volatile to play last and not a certain loop.

The only thing the loop does for you here is protect against a terrible Rochow score as you can play Lodge and Kikau in your reserves. Main point is TPJ isn't guaranteed either way so you can't be certain he will be able to loop for you. If Rochow scores <30 you don't worry and play both others.

If we have reliable news that TPJ is out go get a free look at Rochow. To me it adds another decision point though. What score do you want to activate the loop? Lodge is more a solid 35-40pt player and Kikau can be anywhere from 25-55pts. I don't see what score range you'd rather not play either Lodge or Kikau for though.

Ideally you'd want Kikau to play first to have more clarity. Forced to pick Kikau is the guy I'd avoid if you loop Rochow as I'm not sure on his minutes. No consistency from Griffin and although he played 80 there were some injuries that may have helped.

TLDR: Kikau but make sure TPJ is out first.

I'd play Croker over a guaranteed 20.

If TPJ plays I'd keep him in 17 though

If I hadn't kept Katoa, I would have Nicholls in my squad.

So for me, the points he has gained me are worth it.

Keeping him this week guarantees me Havili's 46 as well, which is a nice bonus.

For fear of inducing another loophole drama on the main page I've posted here.

The main problem I see with looping is that the current loophole lets you pick your score. Makes it a valuable part of the game with no strict conditions other than a single injury (i.e. most weeks).

Previously you just got your lowest score as an AE. Made it a late season strategy only as your bench had to be bare to get a high score. Early season too many guys like Nicholls, Godinet, Havili or Carty that would have made what we do now impossible.

While ranked subs and position-less benches rewards depth in your team and prevents the old playing a gun 2RF as a centre loophole (which is good). It's also allowed teams to avoid making choices that define fantasy play for me (gut calls and putting your best team on the park).

With the smaller benches you don't generally have an abundance of spare players but maybe they should tweak it so you get the lowest possible positional AE fill in (effectively removes the ranked subs).

Example for me is last week I got Kikau's 54pts but under the old system (or my suggestion) I would have got Nichol's 5pts.

I had Kennar as my loop on the bench with Isaako and Hiku to cover my centres.

So instead of choosing whether I would be playing the boom-bust Kikau or the steady Rochow I got to make a call in hindsight (hardly exciting or game defining). This is the problem with loopholing as there is limited skill (as discussed loopholing is hoping the draw order works for you) and there is no downside/equivalent risk like there was in previous seasons.

I like the AEs system as League isn't transparent with injuries in the slightest (another issue I won't get into here - In the NFL smiths niggles that prevent him kicking would have been reported well before the game) and can really catch people out who can't be available an hour before every game, on every weekend for a season. It just shouldn't reward you for not making a call on who you think is a better player that week. It should unconditionally give you your worst decision as everyone is a fantasy god with the power of hindsight..............

And for those that say get rid of rolling lockout but keep ranked subs. Not in the slightest am I keen on this. Rolling lockout is useful for more than loopholing.

In a H2H after 4 games into a round I might know to have any chance of winning I need to change my more consistent team for a more volatile one or make a trade that will give me a shot a winning (realise this is more H2H focused than Overall). I like this element of the game more than getting rid of all loophole potential. I'd also like the ability to move your captain and vc during a round (prior to that games lockout) for similar reasons but that'd likely be rife for abuse and you can't have everything I guess (maybe remove the vc so you only have a single captain).

Milchcow wrote:
If I hadn't kept Katoa, I would have Nicholls in my squad.

So for me, the points he has gained me are worth it.

Keeping him this week guarantees me Havili's 46 as well, which is a nice bonus.

Just to be clear I'm not calling you out or anything. It was really smart and a good decision to set your team up the way you did. Kudos and well played. I just think this was a good practical example of what I was trying to explain.

In hindsight it's harder but, with no knowledge of last nights game (or your team) I personally think there is no way you would have played Havili if you didn't have the loop. That a fair call to make? This is my main angst about loopholing as it rewards what I would call "poor fantasy decision making". The whole easy to know the right answer in hindsight.

But again it was definitely the good/smart/correct move to make with the current rules. I did the same but have never had Havilli. I set my Kennar loop up for Fualalo which I won't be keeping. Pre Rd 1 I thought the RFM vs Fualalo was gonna be like Finucane vs Kaufusi of last year and wanted to make sure I got the right one.

Also I went Katoa to Kikau so the trade was good for me but I already had Nichols which has been great........................

With my current team Havili would have made my 17 if I couldn't loop (other options for 17th man are Croker, Isaako, Doueihi) . But I have a trade up my sleeve and a large bank roll, so have the option of trading a gun in that would be better than running with Havili (but given he has his 46 I might save the trade and upgrade next week)


Its tough to say what I would have done without rolling lockout, as I probably would have ditched Katoa after round 1 and kept Nicholls, and my team would look different. Probably I would have used my bankroll by now and played whoever I had traded in, but can't say for sure.

Personally I just hate the old AE system

I dislike a system that rewards people for having someone who doesn't play at all over someone who takes the field (even if that someone plays a small bench role and scores poorly)

It should always be a better option to have someone that scores points over someone that doesn't score points.

I also dislike a system that gives you no compensation if you have more than 1 person who doesn't play.

Sure rolling lockout helped deal with that, but it was a lottery sometimes. It depends on when your players play during a round as to whether you could adapt or not.
Frustrating that if someone is a late withdrawal in the Friday night game you can just replace them with next best option, but if they miss out on the late Sunday game you are probably screwed.

Prefer ranked subs and hard lockout because
a) Someone who misses a Saturday game is treated the same as someone who misses a Sunday game
b) It rewards having depth in your team. Can't have an advantage by having a non-player.
c) There is no opportunity to game the system by playing with loopholes, pick what you think is your strongest team and live or die by your own choices.

Very true. It's a whole different game for guys like Katoa.

For me with Kennar I'd have kept him anyway with a low BE and a determination to stay with cheap centres for as long as I can.

What guns are you looking at bringing in?

Personally I'm looking at Fifita and maybe Gallen if he rounds into fantasy form. Rd 13 coverage and all that.

Only other guys are the fallen mid rangers like Holmes and Lamb who play 13 and I hope to ride some price rises on without necessarily playing them. I'm not sold on JFH yet but I don't see a lot of other options yet.

Cap'n Ranta wrote:

Just to be clear I'm not calling you out or anything.  

By the way , people can "Call me out" as much as they want. Won't change how I play the game.

The rules allow for changing reserve order during the round for your own advantage, so I will do that.

IMO calling someone out for doing that is like getting angry at someone for trading in Mbye the week before he scored his 101.

Cap'n Ranta wrote:Very true. It's a whole different game for guys like Katoa.

For me with Kennar I'd have kept him anyway with a low BE and a determination to stay with cheap centres for as long as I can.

What guns are you looking at bringing in?

Personally I'm looking at Fifita and maybe Gallen if he rounds into fantasy form. Rd 13 coverage and all that.

Only other guys are the fallen mid rangers like Holmes and Lamb who play 13 and I hope to ride some price rises on without necessarily playing them. I'm not sold on JFH yet but I don't see a lot of other options yet.

Guns I am looking at bringing in

McCullough, Fifita, JTrbo are the main ones who I expect to maintain good scoring all season.

Halves I am not 100% sure on right now. Hoping I can pick someone up cheap after a couple of poor scores.

Mannering, Gallen, Rapana all on the watchlist as someone who might drop a bit of cash and become good value.

Milchcow wrote:

By the way , people can "Call me out" as much as they want. Won't change how I play the game.

The rules allow for changing reserve order during the round for your own advantage, so I will do that.

IMO calling someone out for doing that is like getting angry at someone for trading in Mbye the week before he scored his 101.

Sweet - wasn't too worried but when reading it I was cautious as without writing that it seemed like a bit of a personal attack after my thought piece so just wanted to be clear.

As for the halves I totally agree. Personally hoping SJ will come down to be a good option in the halves or someone in that midrange can show me that I should run with them. Right now I'm convinced Maloney is the best guy to get me to SJ and I feel that says a lot about any other half (barring DCE) at the moment.

Agree on all your main choices but my back 3 (Turbo, Ponga, Tedesco) are set so it looks like I'll be missing some good Rapana value there. Getting to close to non loophole talk so I'll cut that out now  

I reckon with rolling lockout we could still achieve all the stuff you wanted though. Reckon it'd be something like:

1) Unlimited AEs - major improvement I like
2) AEs is restricted to same position as your injured player - another major improvement I like
3) AE then picks the lowest score of your possible reserves - no value in loopholing as it gives worst option (or it forces a trade you'd otherwise not make)
4) No VC. Pick your captain and you are stuck with them when their lockout hits. If they are under an injury cloud you should likely reconsider anyway.

With this I see no loophole chances, playing a zero guarantees you the worst possible outcome and it rewards depth.

Doesn't do away with the difference between an early game and a late game final team list/injury withdrawl but I'd gladly take that if I can still have the good stuff a rolling lockout gives. For example this week I am not the favourite at all so I'm looking at what I can do to give me the best chance to win.

My opponent has captain Chricton and I have captain Macca. If Chricton busted a huge 80+ score I'd be tempted to captain Ponga to try and catchup which I can't do with a hard lockout. Also he has Kikau but not JFH. If I'm behind coming into the panthers game I'll gladly play JFH instead of Kikau to try and get the win rather than be destined to lose. Conversely if I'm winning I'll stick with Kikau but then maybe my mate trades in Edwards with a bit of cash hes saved to go hard. That's the sorta fun and valuable stuff that is in the spirit of the game that ranked subs with a full lockout will stop.

I loopholed for my first time in my autofill team and it felt good. I did however forget to set it up for my main team. Inexperience showing right there.

Assuming Kennar is still out, im looking to put him into my start 13 WFB, and put Thompson and Dufty in my EMG:

#18 Havali
#19 Dufty
#20 Thompson

Dufty plays before Thompson. So assuming Dufty goes big, I will leave as is. If he does shit, I will swap Thompson with Havali and will get Thompson AE score.

Just confirming this will work. Kennar playing before or after Dufty/Thompson shouldn't matter right?

hymenbustas wrote:Assuming Kennar is still out, im looking to put him into my start 13 WFB, and put Thompson and Dufty in my EMG:

#18 Havali
#19 Dufty
#20 Thompson

Dufty plays before Thompson. So assuming Dufty goes big, I will leave as is. If he does shit, I will swap Thompson with Havali and will get Thompson AE score.

Just confirming this will work. Kennar playing before or after Dufty/Thompson shouldn't matter right?

Yep. No issues there