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    2020 Parramatta Eels Thread......Lets not get carried away.

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    Post by filthridden Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:48 am

    ryno_ wrote:

    Same as the difference between the video ref having enough evidence to confirm a on-field ref's call or merely uphold it.


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    Post by No Worries Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:18 am

    Krump wrote:What's the difference between innocent and not guilty?

    It's a civil case, it's not about innocence or guilt it's about compensation. Hayne broke her one and only hymen. Something that can never be replaced. Yes, that was today's news report, she was a virgin. So if she can prove she was and that she was too drunk to consent its a pay day. Nothing to do with the criminal act of which one is presumed innocent till found guilty.

    Think of it like music piracy/copyright. You infringe on a copyright, use someone's riff you have deprived them of potential income it's a civil matter, you pay compensation. You pay them for what the court says the value is of what they potentially lost and case closed. You burn a shitload of their latest CD and sell them, that's piracy and criminal. Apparently in this case there were no CD's, but he was heard whistling the tune.
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    Post by Krump Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:14 pm

    No Worries wrote:

    It's a civil case, it's not about innocence or guilt it's about compensation. Hayne broke her one and only hymen. Something that can never be replaced. Yes, that was today's news report, she was a virgin. So if she can prove she was and that she was too drunk to consent its a pay day. Nothing to do with the criminal act of which one is presumed innocent till found guilty.

    Think of it like music piracy/copyright. You infringe on a copyright, use someone's riff you have deprived them of potential income it's a civil matter, you pay compensation. You pay them for what the court says the value is of what they potentially lost and case closed. You burn a shitload of their latest CD and sell them, that's piracy and criminal. Apparently in this case there were no CD's, but he was heard whistling the tune.
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    Post by Revraiser Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:21 pm

    Imagine how many guys and girls across the globe will now be brought to court for taking someone home under the influence.
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    Post by Dip Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:27 pm

    I wonder if Hayne was sober enough at the time to give consent?
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    Post by Guest Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:55 pm

    Revraiser wrote:Imagine how many guys and girls across the globe will now be brought to court for taking someone home under the influence.
    Dip wrote:I wonder if Hayne was sober enough at the time to give consent?

    to clarify before i speak, i'm not talking about pre-meditated situations with roofies or those that exhibit predetory behaviour, who should be locked away for a long time, but it's always troubled me that when it comes to drunk sex, a women can be absolved of her mistakes by using the word 'rape', and then the bloke is to blame, no matter how sloshed he was, we don't look at drunk drivers and go "let 'em go, they were too drunk to know better"
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    Post by code delta Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:38 pm

    Ice wrote:1. He'd made it,  he realised his dream of cracking the NFL, why did he leave all of a sudden? To pursue Rugby 7s, I mean, it just didn't seem right then or now.


    He was released by the 49ers. He made it and then didn't make the cut.
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    Post by Pieman Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:43 pm

    surmo13 wrote:


    to clarify before i speak, i'm not talking about pre-meditated situations with roofies or those that exhibit predetory behaviour, who should be locked away for a long time, but it's always troubled me that when it comes to drunk sex, a women can be absolved of her mistakes by using the word 'rape', and then the bloke is to blame, no matter how sloshed he was, we don't look at drunk drivers and go "let 'em go, they were too drunk to know better"
    I get the jist of what you are saying but drink driving over the limit is always illegal, having drunk sex is not illegal.

    But yep as soon as the word Rape is dropped by a woman - she has all the power/media/community behind her even if there is no evidence or if its his word against hers
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    Post by Guest Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:14 pm

    Pieman wrote:
    I get the jist of what you are saying but drink driving over the limit is always illegal, having drunk sex is not illegal.

    But yep as soon as the word Rape is dropped by a woman - she has all the power/media/community behind her even if there is no evidence or if its his word against hers

    yeh, i'll admit it's probably not the best of comparisons, what i mean is that whatever they may be, the consequences of a person's actions should be theirs and theirs alone, 'i can't be held responsible for any decisions i make after the one where i've decided to get so hammered i won't remember any of them' doesn't fly as a legal defence and it shouldn't fly as the crux of a legal accusation.
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    Post by Honeysett Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:27 pm

    The laws around consent are fucked.

    I've had women who were drunk af got pissed off and nearly violent that I've refused to sleep with them because of how drunk they were (and I was) often times I've just gone "fuck it, I'll do it" I've been accused of rape in this instance before. Despite the fact the girl was verbally and physically abusive towards me at the time. I went through a period where I was nearly getting bashed every time I went out because she told people I raped her. In the end a friend of hers got the truth out of her through text and saved me effectively. I feel for anyone that has to go through that shit. If a girl and guy are drunk no one can consent legally however there needs to be responsibility for getting that drunk that you made that choice. It's a mistake, it isn't rape.
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    Post by Pieman Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:19 am

    surmo13 wrote:

    yeh, i'll admit it's probably not the best of comparisons, what i mean is that whatever they may be, the consequences of a person's actions should be theirs and theirs alone, 'i can't be held responsible for any decisions i make after the one where i've decided to get so hammered i won't remember any of them' doesn't fly as a legal defence and it shouldn't fly as the crux of a legal accusation.

    sure in certain situations but its more about the guy taking advantage isnt it? Yes, its totally ignored that the bloke is smashed as well but yeh in this society its - "she was drunk so he shouldnt have done it" .. which is both right and wrong
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    Post by Ice Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:56 am

    Starting to go down the path of victim blaming here. It's not against the law to get so hammered that you can't consent or remember what you do. It is against the law to have sex with someone against or without there conscious consent.

    If you don't want to potentially get accused of rape, don't fuck drunk girls, unless you record them verbally consenting on your phone. The reverse does NOT apply, that is "if you don't want to get raped, don't get drunk". You're entitled to get drunk without the threat of someone taking advantage of you, whether your a guy or girl.
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    Post by ryno_ Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:16 am

    Ice wrote:Starting to go down the path of victim blaming here. It's not against the law to get so hammered that you can't consent or remember what you do. It is against the law to have sex with someone against or without there conscious consent.

    If you don't want to potentially get accused of rape, don't fuck drunk girls, unless you record them verbally consenting on your phone. The reverse does NOT apply, that is "if you don't want to get raped, don't get drunk". You're entitled to get drunk without the threat of someone taking advantage of you, whether your a guy or girl.

    I've heard stories about high-profile people who have women who come back with them sign a non-disclosure agreement, which includes language that they are aware there is the possibility of gettin' down. Not sure on the legality of someone totally hammered signing a contract but it's something.

    Apparently LeSean McCoy (at least in his Philly days) had a stack of them on hand, just in case.

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    Post by Guest Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:23 am

    Ice wrote:Starting to go down the path of victim blaming here. It's not against the law to get so hammered that you can't consent or remember what you do. It is against the law to have sex with someone against or without there conscious consent.

    If you don't want to potentially get accused of rape, don't fuck drunk girls, unless you record them verbally consenting on your phone. The reverse does NOT apply, that is "if you don't want to get raped, don't get drunk". You're entitled to get drunk without the threat of someone taking advantage of you, whether your a guy or girl.

    nope, like i said, predatory behaviour is not on in any way shape or form, and the moment she says no or is to far gone to be an active participant, it's over.

    i'm not saying it's against the law to fuck while drunk, i'm saying that if you do, when you wake up the next morning, you have to own whatever decisions you made and not ruin some-ones elses life over it, i'll bet there are TONS of blokes out there who wish they could get a boatload cash out of the minger they found themselves next to in bed the morning after.
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    Post by No Worries Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:19 am

    Can I take civil actionagainst a mate I went wingman for once. Not as bad, but along the lines of Isla Fischer Wedding Crashers.
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    Post by Dip Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:52 pm

    Are there any lawyers here, or just accountants? Not saying this happened in the Hayne case, just a general question.

    If you can be too drunk to give consent, can you also be too drunk to know the drunk consent they're giving isn't valid, and is that a defence? And who is more guilty of having sex with someone without consent. Is it both of them? Or Neither? Or who was the least drunk?

    For example, if Hayne said "I don't know if I had sex with her because I was too drunk to remember. Maybe I did and DNA testing can show that, but there is no medical evidence that it was violent or anything that would suggest stereotypical rape. She must have had sex with me even though I was incapable of giving consent. Jesus, apart from the feeling of being violated, this will have quite adverse financial implications for me if the media report on it in their gossip columns. As a professional NFL player, there were always women trying to pick us up."
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    Post by Pieman Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:24 am

    surmo13 wrote:

    nope, like i said, predatory behaviour is not on in any way shape or form, and the moment she says no or is to far gone to be an active participant, it's over.

    i'm not saying it's against the law to fuck while drunk, i'm saying that if you do, when you wake up the next morning, you have to own whatever decisions you made and not ruin some-ones elses life over it, i'll bet there are TONS of blokes out there who wish they could get a boatload cash out of the minger they found themselves next to in bed the morning after.

    totally going down the victim blaming path there surmo IMO
    Ice is 100% correct - dont put urself in that situation if you dont want to get accused of doing it


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    Post by Guest Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:51 am

    Pieman wrote:

    totally going down the victim blaming path there surmo IMO
    Ice is 100% correct - dont put urself in that situation if you dont want to get accused of doing it



    Laughing replace the words 'accused of doing it' with the word 'raped' and you have the text-book definition of victim blaming.

    so what you're saying is, it's not illegal for a women to have drunk sex, but it is illegal for a man... 'sorry Johnny, i know the girl you hooked up with after the club last night was down for all kinds of kinky shit at the time, but she woke up the next morning and decided she shouldn't have done that, so even though you matched her shot for shot, you're a rapist now"

    forced drunk sex while displaying either some kind of resistant behaviour, or not being responsive enough to display resistant behaviour is rape and the man is a piece of shit that should be locked away for a long time. Having drunk sex and then regretting it afterwards is not.

    I think it's weird that it's controversial not to hold the rather sexist notion that women are just wilting flowers that need constant protection from anything and everything, including their own decision-making.


    Last edited by surmo13 on Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by dasherhalo Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:28 am

    Great post Surmo.

    I've got a 19 year old son, 14 year old daughter, and both sides of this worry me. I worry for both of them.

    What I don't want to do is treat her any differently than I do him, which seems to be the last station on the train track that is the "consent" saga.



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    Post by Pieman Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:05 am

    surmo13 wrote:

    Laughing replace the words 'accused of doing it' with the word 'raped' and you have the text-book definition of victim blaming.

    so what you're saying is, it's not illegal for a women to have drunk sex, but it is illegal for a man... 'sorry Johnny, i know the girl you hooked up with after the club last night was down for all kinds of kinky shit at the time, but she woke up the next morning and decided she shouldn't have done that, so even though you matched her shot for shot, you're a rapist now"

    forced drunk sex while displaying either some kind of resistant behaviour, or not being responsive enough to display resistant behaviour is rape and the man is a piece of shit that should be locked away for a long time. Having drunk sex and then regretting it afterwards is not.

    I think it's weird that it's controversial not to hold the rather sexist notion that women are just wilting flowers that need constant protection from anything and everything, including their own decision-making.

    lol.. yeah, so if u replace words and change the sentence to mean something totally different it has a totally different meaning..  awesome one there. What an absolutely inane comment to make.

    And what? Thats not what I am saying at all - I didn't even mention gender in that post. I never said anything about legality in that post, before it I literally said drunk sex is not illegal, your admittedly poor analogy did say say it was illegal. In the post you quoted I said, dont do it if you dont want to put ur self in the position to be accused of it - If you argue that, you are a deadshit. If there is a risk (and its magnified by a billon as an NFL player in the states) that if you take a chick home when blind you might get accused of rape, then dont do it. Bang her the next day. He ran the risk and it came back to bite him. It is more about protecting yourself than protecting someone else from their own decision.

    Of course, having drunk consensual sex and regretting it after is totally different to rape. Thats fucking common sense. And absolutely, a person with a skinful's decision making is impaired. Thats what happens when you drink. People sometimes do things they regret. Drink driving. Saying things they normally wouldnt say. Fighting. Having consensual sex with someone. Raping someone. The list is endless. Being drunk is not an excuse for any of it. And you agree. You are however entitled to 1. get drunk 2. go home with who ever you want 3. not get taken advantage of. I am sure you agree with that too.

    Also, Who is saying that women should be protected from everyone and everything, even their own decisions? We are talking about a very specific case. I am saying, dont put urself in a position to be accused of something.She is saying she passed out and hayne pounded her and she woke up in pain no longer on her v plates. Shes not saying they had sex and she regrets it and wants money, If that's what she was saying it wouldnt have even got a look in in court. She is saying she was raped.

    Whether she just got so drunk she doesnt remember, or passed out, or begged for it then regretted it - we will never know. They will settle out of court and it will go away - hayne will keep his contract because "not guilty" legally.  If that's what she was saying it wouldnt have even got a look in in court.

    I totally agree - if someone does something they regret they have to live with it. Blaming the other person or alcohol is ridiculous. But in this case that isnt what is happening, so we might be arguing different things mate.

    One thing that irks me about this case is that she isnt allowed to be named. Her criminal case was thrown out, shes taking civil action. If its now your word against mine then both parties should be named IMO. Its stupid that she is allowed to come out and accuse someone of raping her but is able to hide behind a pseudonym IMO.

    Also, fuck it. Sometimes people do need to be protected from their own decisions - thats one of the reasons laws were invented.

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