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    NSW State of Origin side 2017

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    Ice

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    Re: NSW State of Origin side 2017

    Post by Ice on Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:54 pm

    @ryno_ wrote:

    Against the Bulldogs, who fielded the worst backline outside Newcastle. Pump the brakes.

    Where am I wrong. It was utter domination, he was sublime, it was his first outing in the 6 at this level (I think) and I've called it since last year.

    It wasn't a close game, I wouldn't have raised it if it was 18-14 or similar, but it was basically the same Dogs backline that went down by a point to the premiers, that lost by less than six to the Roosters twice, has really only been blown of the park by an inform Manly and a backline that was FAR superior to the Dogs backline that BEAT the Broncos.

    Yep, it's one game, he has a long way to go, but I think we can all agree, debut games in the 6 don't get a whole lot better. He set the tone from the second set with his defense, the area that everyone thought he'd struggle with playing in the line, back he was excellent there. It was as complete a game as we have seen this year from a 6.

    If it was a Bronco or Qlder doing similar the noise would be deafening and you know it.
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    ryno_

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    Re: NSW State of Origin side 2017

    Post by ryno_ on Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:02 pm

    @Ice wrote:

    Where am I wrong. It was utter domination, he was sublime, it was his first outing in the 6 at this level (I think) and I've called it since last year.

    It wasn't a close game, I wouldn't have raised it if it was 18-14 or similar, but it was basically the same Dogs backline that went down by a point to the premiers, that lost by less than six to the Roosters twice, has really only been blown of the park by an inform Manly and a backline that was FAR superior to the Dogs backline that BEAT the Broncos.

    Yep, it's one game, he has a long way to go, but I think we can all agree, debut games in the 6 don't get a whole lot better. He set the tone from the second set with his defense, the area that everyone thought he'd struggle with playing in the line, back he was excellent there. It was as complete a game as we have seen this year from a 6.

    If it was a Bronco or Qlder doing similar the noise would be deafening and you know it.


    I'm not saying you're wrong that he tore them to pieces. But look at his opposition. You can only play who you're up against, but relax. Lets put him against a first grade standard backline before naming him the second coming.

    The idea that the weekend's Bulldogs backline is "FAR superior" to the one that beat the Broncos, in torrential rain, is ridiculous - JRey being out alone wipes that theory. And they lost by a point to the Sharks - who were without Maloney. So, yes, Moylan performed better against the same backline then Fa'auma Brown did. Fantastic.

    Broncos' (at the time) new half Nikorima _did_ tear a team to shreds, against the Tigers, about a month ago. The noise was hardly deafening. And he did it on his halves debut aswell, against the Titans.

    There have been plenty of better performances from a 6 this year - Widdop had the ball on a string for the first month of 2017. Morgan was unstoppable when he got his go against the dogs. Keary has been spectacular, if inconsistent week-to-week.

    Im not saying he didn't play very well and showed a lot of promise outside his normal position. But lets relax a liiiiiitle bit until he does it against a first grade team.




    Ice

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    Re: NSW State of Origin side 2017

    Post by Ice on Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:56 pm

    @ryno_ wrote:

    I'm not saying you're wrong that he tore them to pieces. But look at his opposition. You can only play who you're up against, but relax. Lets put him against a first grade standard backline before naming him the second coming.

    The idea that the weekend's Bulldogs backline is "FAR superior" to the one that beat the Broncos, in torrential rain, is ridiculous - JRey being out alone wipes that theory. And they lost by a point to the Sharks - who were without Maloney. So, yes, Moylan performed better against the same backline then Fa'auma Brown did. Fantastic.


    Broncos' (at the time) new half Nikorima _did_ tear a team to shreds, against the Tigers, about a month ago. The noise was hardly deafening. And he did it on his halves debut aswell, against the Titans.

    There have been plenty of better performances from a 6 this year - Widdop had the ball on a string for the first month of 2017. Morgan was unstoppable when he got his go against the dogs. Keary has been spectacular, if inconsistent week-to-week.

    Im not saying he didn't play very well and showed a lot of promise outside his normal position. But lets relax a liiiiiitle bit until he does it against a first grade team.




    Abbey, Morris, Morris, Lee, Montoya, Reynolds, Frawley is comfortably worse than

    Hopoate, Montoya, Morris, Lee, Holland, Frawley, Mbye

    and the first lot were up against a backline that consisted of Boyd, Oates, Milford and Hunt.

    I'm not even gonna start on Kodi, with Milford and Boyd owing Halves of the quality of Littlejohn and Rankin. Or the 2 point win over the Hayneless Titans with 2 guys named Tyrone Roberts, Copley and Sarginson in the backline (or was it a different game?) wow, what quality.

    Kodi goes ok as a fill in, not dramas there, but you are kiddingly if you think he and Moylan are anywhere near the same class. Kodi has two or three years in the game at best and will never be a regular starter. Moylan will captain NSW.

    Morgan (a regular half) was unstoppable you say against the Bulldogs backline with only one difference with his team scoring less and conceding more than the Panthers and THAT was a better effort than Moylans debut? I'm beginning to think you didn't watch the Panthers game.

    Like I said, a long way to go, but when I have been calling for him to be in the 6 for over a year, people have been saying he won't handle it defensively and isn't good enough. Sure, 1 game, I may be wrong, but the evidence based on that one game suggests he has a decent future in the 6, that is all I'm saying.

    Oh, and I'll acknowledge it wasn't his first game in the 6, that was game 3 in Origin last year. 2 for 2!!


    Last edited by Ice on Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    surmo13

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    Re: NSW State of Origin side 2017

    Post by surmo13 on Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:11 pm

    @Ice wrote:
    Abbey, Morris, Morris, Lee, Montoya, Reynolds, Frawley is comfortably worse than

    Hopoate, Montoya, Morris, Lee, Holland, Frawley, Mbye


    have no interest in the argument at hand, just want to confirm that you think Brad Abbey, Brett Morris & Josh Reynolds are 'comfortably worse' than Will Hopoate, Kerrod Holland and Moses Mybe.
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    Honeysett
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    Re: NSW State of Origin side 2017

    Post by Honeysett on Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:10 pm

    The game isn't played with just backs. Let's not forget there are forwards who lay the platform for the backs and the Dogs were down on troops yesterday. All that's been stated is you can't judge someone this early. Positive signs, yes and I think he'll end up a gun 6 hut there's plenty he needs to work on.

    Ice

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    Re: NSW State of Origin side 2017

    Post by Ice on Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:23 pm

    @surmo13 wrote:

    have no interest in the argument at hand, just want to confirm that you think Brad Abbey, Brett Morris & Josh Reynolds are 'comfortably worse' than Will Hopoate, Kerrod Holland and Moses Mybe.

    It's not an argument and I can't confirm what you've asked as it's not what I said.

    Ice

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    Re: NSW State of Origin side 2017

    Post by Ice on Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:30 pm

    @Honeysett wrote:The game isn't played with just backs. Let's not forget there are forwards who lay the platform for the backs and the Dogs were down on troops yesterday. All that's been stated is you can't judge someone this early. Positive signs, yes and I think he'll end up a gun 6 hut there's plenty he needs to work on.

    I didn't raise the backline thing, just responded, but I agree with you.

    All I've said was it was an outstanding debut game in the 6. The implication being I think it should have happened a fair while ago and I think he is a long term NRL six.

    Not saying he doesn't, but what are the plenty of things he needs to work on? What difficientcies did he display on Sunday that require attention?
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    surmo13

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    Re: NSW State of Origin side 2017

    Post by surmo13 on Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:08 am

    @Ice wrote:

    It's not an argument and I can't confirm what you've asked as it's not what I said.

    it is though, those players are the only difference between the 2 backlines you posted, there is no way Abbey is bad enough compared to Hopoate to make up for how far ahead Morris is ahead of Holland & Reynolds is ahead of Mbye to be a 'comfortably worse' combination of players
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    Honeysett
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    Re: NSW State of Origin side 2017

    Post by Honeysett on Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:43 am

    @Ice wrote:

    I didn't raise the backline thing, just responded, but I agree with you.

    All I've said was it was an outstanding debut game in the 6. The implication being I think it should have happened a fair while ago and I think he is a long term NRL six.

    Not saying he doesn't, but what are the plenty of things he needs to work on? What difficientcies did he display on Sunday that require attention?

    Not so much last week because the Dogs were toothless, however I think he needs work on his one on one defence. He got found out a couple times in Origin - he will need to make sure he works on that.
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    ryno_

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    Re: NSW State of Origin side 2017

    Post by ryno_ on Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:43 am

    @Ice wrote:
    Abbey, Morris, Morris, Lee, Montoya, Reynolds, Frawley is comfortably worse than

    Hopoate, Montoya, Morris, Lee, Holland, Frawley, Mbye

    In what world is that the case? Cancel out the same players and you're saying Abbey, Morris and Reynolds is a worse trio (let alone "comfortably worse") then DigitsJr, Dutchy & Mbye? Rocks in your head. Reynolds, Morris and a corpse would be a better trio.

    @Ice wrote:
    and the first lot were up against a backline that consisted of Boyd, Oates, Milford and Hunt.

    I'm not even gonna start on Kodi, with Milford and Boyd owing Halves of the quality of Littlejohn and Rankin. Or the 2 point win over the Hayneless Titans with 2 guys named Tyrone Roberts, Copley and Sarginson in the backline (or was it a different game?) wow, what quality.

    Kodi goes ok as a fill in, not dramas there, but you are kiddingly if you think he and Moylan are anywhere near the same class. Kodi has two or three years in the game at best and will never be a regular starter. Moylan will captain NSW.

    Morgan (a regular half) was unstoppable you say against the Bulldogs backline with only one difference with his team scoring less and conceding more than the Panthers and THAT was a better effort than Moylans debut? I'm beginning to think you didn't watch the Panthers game.

    Like I said, a long way to go, but when I have been calling for him to be in the 6 for over a year, people have been saying he won't handle it defensively and isn't good enough. Sure, 1 game, I may be wrong, but the evidence based on that one game suggests he has a decent future in the 6, that is all I'm saying.

    Oh, and I'll acknowledge it wasn't his first game in the 6, that was game 3 in Origin last year. 2 for 2!!

    Im not saying Moylan and Kodi are in the same class of player. Just responding to your statement that if it was a Broncos or QLD player, the noise "would be deafening". Kodi had a fantastic game in his halves debut aswell and there was less jizz over it on the whole forum then your post over Moylan.

    I did watch the Panthers game and from what I remember from the match like a month ago, Morgan had a better run. I cbf looking but Im sure the stats would back me up. Likewise from Widdop in the opening rounds. Its a long time and many games watched ago but im confident his performance(s) would have been above Moylans effort. Ditto for Keary - wasn't he leading the DallyM after a month? Sure, they are all career halves and you'd expect them to go better then a player making his halves debut - but im just answering your "point" that there wasnt a more complete performance all year from a 5/8.

    He played well, looked very comfortable in the role and there are few things prettier then a ball player picking a defensive line apart, regardless of the jersey he's wearing. But lets wait until he plays an NRL standard backline before we all collectively reach for the tissues.

    Ice

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    Re: NSW State of Origin side 2017

    Post by Ice on Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:08 am

    @Honeysett wrote:

    Not so much last week because the Dogs were toothless, however I think he needs work on his one on one defence. He got found out a couple times in Origin - he will need to make sure he works on that.

    So like a number of other top quality halves in history he is not gonna to be a brilliant one on one defender, fair enough, that's one thing, like Lockyer and Maloney to name just a couple, which he didn't have an issue with against the dogs, he actually did very well in that area, what about the other "plenty of things"

    leaguegod

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    Re: NSW State of Origin side 2017

    Post by leaguegod on Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:10 am

    anyone that uses a performance against the abysmal, lost in 2012, out of ideas, tired, dumb, full of lazy fat fuckers bulldogs as a reason to pump a players tires is clutching at straws.


    you could be put matt fraudley in the panthers team on sunday and he'd probably carve up, especially with a defensive edge of hollan-lee-fraudley to go up against

    the fact that we throw in the occasional tough performance against the likes of storm, broncos, raiders, sharks and roosters doesn't change how fucking ordinary we are all over the park because we can't expect guys like graham, jackson, klemmer and tolman to carry the whole fucking team every week and when they can't, we are as bad as anyone not named the newcastle knights

    leaguegod

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    Re: NSW State of Origin side 2017

    Post by leaguegod on Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:11 am

    @Ice wrote:

    So like a number of other top quality halves in history he is not gonna to be a brilliant one on one defender, fair enough, that's one thing, like Lockyer and Maloney to name just a couple, which he didn't have an issue with against the dogs, he actually did very well in that area, what about the other "plenty of things"


    we were garbage and on the back foot all game and moylan still was able to make a defensive error that lead to our lone line break by brenko

    Ice

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    Re: NSW State of Origin side 2017

    Post by Ice on Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:46 am

    sorry, I'll concede, comfortably was a bit of a stretch.

    leaguegod

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    Re: NSW State of Origin side 2017

    Post by leaguegod on Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:00 am

    i think matt moylan is a 6, i am excited about the change long term, i think given enough time, he will become a better player for it and possibly a bigger shout for rep teams but i wouldn't take any panthers performance against us for granted because we are awful


    you could have plugged literally anyone in at 6 and we were gonna make them look like a superstar

    Dip

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    Re: NSW State of Origin side 2017

    Post by Dip on Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:34 am

    Moylan will make an excellent 6, and given Maloney is almost 31, is probably a fair chance of being a long term NSW no 6 (not withstanding that he is 26 soon too, so if Moloney has a season or two to go after this one, long term might be 3-4 seasons).

    Just like the week leading up to the Broncos match earlier this year when the Dogs also got heavily criticised in the media for poor, one dimensional performances, I expect them to come out with a tough backs to the wall performance this week against the Dragons. The Dogs are as good a chance of winning against a top 4 team as anyone, by grinding out a 12-10 win. Unfortunately for them, as LG says, you can't do that on the back of 4-5 players every week and still make the finals.

    leaguegod

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    Re: NSW State of Origin side 2017

    Post by leaguegod on Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:39 am

    well to be honest, it did in 2015 & 2016 lol but i think the load has taken its toll on same of those guys, especially graham


    i agree, we'll be up for the st george game, it'll be alot closer then people will think, we would be a frustrating team to lose too because you might watch us look terrible and get thrashed the week after

    Oz Sport Mad

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    Re: NSW State of Origin side 2017

    Post by Oz Sport Mad on Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:46 am

    @leaguegod wrote:i think matt moylan is a 6, i am excited about the change long term, i think given enough time, he will become a better player for it and possibly a bigger shout for rep teams but i wouldn't take any panthers performance against us for granted because we are awful


    you could have plugged literally anyone in at 6 and we were gonna make them look like a superstar


    Anyone?
    What about Mbye...

    leaguegod

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    Re: NSW State of Origin side 2017

    Post by leaguegod on Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:48 am

    yes, even mbye


    michael lichaa still would have struggled at hooker tho

    Dip

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    Re: NSW State of Origin side 2017

    Post by Dip on Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:57 am

    @leaguegod wrote:well to be honest, it did in 2015 & 2016 lol but i think the load has taken its toll on same of those guys, especially graham


    i agree, we'll be up for the st george game, it'll be alot closer then people will think, we would be a frustrating team to lose too because you might watch us look terrible and get thrashed the week after

    Everyone loves James Graham as a player, but with the matches he misses or goes off early, perhaps the Bulldogs are doing the right thing if the rumours of him being shopped around since the Woods signing. If you lose a prop after 15 minutes, gee it seems to be hard to win games these days.

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