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    2017 Brisbane Broncos Thread - we hate them for their freedom

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    Dip

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    Post by Dip Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:08 pm

    Pieman wrote:

    It wouldnt be instead of the suspension, it would go with it. The side and player should be punished on the day and after.

    I agree.

    You've misinterpreted what I said. What I was suggesting was that if Joe O instead of doing a spear tackle had tackled a player after a quick tap when he was offside, then the 10 minute sin bin could have had a far bigger impact on the Broncos season than the eventual 3 week suspension. Look at the Raiders game for example. It was a must win game for Canberra, and at 12 points up Papalii gets sin-binned. Now in most cases that would result in their opponents, who were in 3rd place on the ladder compared to Canberra's 10th place, putting on somewhere between 6 and 18 points between the 55th & 65th minute. Absolutely changes the Raiders season if that happens (yes I'm fully aware that 2 passes after that incident Bakuya drops the ball and the only time the Sharks touch the ball again until Papalii comes back on is at kickoffs and a line drop out, but geez, that is rarity that it happens), and probably moreso than the 2 week suspension he got before this game when they could replace him with someone like Dave Taylor.

    That's crazy. Surely an illegal act that puts a player in physical danger should punish a team more than making a tackle when offside, or back chatting a ref.

    And I'm not saying Papalii shouldn't have been sin-binned either. I'd love a rule where a player gets 5 or 10 minutes sin bin for a professional foul, and 5 or 10 minutes for a significant dangerous foul such as a bad high tackle or a spear tackle. Not every high tackle needs a sin-bin. We need to trust our refs (including the video ref) enough to decide whether a tackle deserves something more than a penalty. I understand why refs don't want to use the send off now, and to be an honest, there is already the situation where a send off in the second minute is penalised more than a send off in the 62nd minute even if they are for identical actions. That's not really fair either. Having a 5-10 minute sin bin would make that an equal penalty, unless it happens in the last 10 minutes. Even if for dangerous acts sin binned players were allowed to return to the field if the opposition scores while they are in the sin bin, that'd be an improvement to the current situation. I wouldn't like that for professional foul sin-bins though, because those are done directly to stop points anyway.

    And another thing. Can anyone explain what the purpose of putting someone on report does other than provide a free interchange (which they already get if they need to go off for HIA)? The MRC allegedly goes through every match in full detail the next day, so the report is not needed for that.
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    Dip

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    Post by Dip Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:27 pm

    ryno_ wrote:

    Bunker should be able to look at an offence being put on report, open up the guidelines the MRP use and go;

    - Rotation of attacker? check
    - Further rotation past horizontal? check
    - Driving force through the tackle? check
    - No other player pushing player into uncontrollable situation? check

    Meets the standard for a grade 3 throw charge/500 penalty points. Recommend a send off.

    Its not like he doesnt have the time to do that.

    ED

    Or alternatively

    - No other player pushing player into uncontrollable situation? There are 2 people in the tackle and it cannot be determined at this stage who the primary offender is. Do not recommend an individual send off.

    Or

    - Meets the standard for a grade 2 throw charge only. Not sufficient potential grading for a send off.


    Also, why isn't MRC the refs or video refs themselves (or a panel of other refs)? Surely you want the people making the call on whether something warrants a suspension being the ones who decide it should be a penalty on field. If you think they've made a mistake then you've then got the option of going to an independent assessor (the judiciary). All this should be done under the supervision of the refs boss. The more layers you have, the more likely there will be incorrect decisions and inconsistency.
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    Post by Pieman Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:44 pm

    Oz Sport Mad wrote:

    Normally I'd discuss what a deadset simpleton you are right now.....but to be honest, most people think like you do in this regard.

    IMO it is completely flawed logic though.

    All players, Joe O included, know very fucking well they will be heavily suspended for any tackle that ends up like this.
    So I can almost 100% guarantee Joe had no idea that something like that was going to happen when he went into that tackle.
    Clumsy yes, intentional no.

    So what does suspending them actually do?
    Give him 3 weeks or give him 30 weeks, unfortunately these tackles will continue to happen accidentally.

    Personally, I would love a shake up of the judiciary and 'intent' to be the focus.
    Then avoidable high tackles like Gallen's on the weekend will be penalised and fans won't be missing seeing the players they like to watch for unintentional mistakes.
    Yes it will be completely subjective and a bastard to try and adjudicate but at least we'll be suspending players for a reason, rather than this moronic false sense of security we have that players will be 'learning' from suspensions that they won't actually be learning from.

    That's all well and good.. but ..They don't get big suspensions for tackles like this. They very rarely if ever do anyway. Thats the whole point of it. He got 3 weeks, that is a very very light suspension for the amount of risk and danger in that very illegal tackle he put on. Did he mean to? Well the fact that he kept driving him into the ground wouldnt work in his favour, but its besides the point and just about irrelevant IMO.

    Why dont players do coat big hangers or come charging in with an elbow any more? Or drop an elbow onto someone when they are on the ground? Because if they do they will get suspended for fucking ages. Why dont people punch any more? Suspensions and sin bins.

    Intent .... You cant prove intent (or its very difficult to) in situations like this. Even if there was intent to do it, the lawyers argue around it and shit, no one is ever going to admit to wanting to spear tackle someone or take someones head off. Things either happen or they dont happen. Whether someone wanted it to happen or not is pretty much totally irrelevant. If they happen, and in this case - that very bloody sickening and hard to watch tackle from Joe O - they should comp massive suspensions.

    If its not a deterrent its a punishment, and at least it gets a careless bloke who made a mistake (intentional or not) out of the game for a few months and gives him enough time to think about what he did and what he would do differently next time.
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    Post by ryno_ Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:58 am

    Dip wrote:

    Also, why isn't MRC the refs or video refs themselves (or a panel of other refs)? Surely you want the people making the call on whether something warrants a suspension being the ones who decide it should be a penalty on field. If you think they've made a mistake then you've then got the option of going to an independent assessor (the judiciary). All this should be done under the supervision of the refs boss. The more layers you have, the more likely there will be incorrect decisions and inconsistency.

    Isn't the panel coaches and players? That seems like a step in the right direction...
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    Post by No Worries Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:32 am

    I'll take little from pool A and a little from pools B.

    With the speed of today's game 10 minutes is too long and can have a major impact for a minor indiscretion.

    All 10 mins become 5 mins (especially professional fouls). The bin hasn't been used for years and when it did get used the refs would send 1 from each for fighting. Then they banned the biff and the sin bin time keeper became the cushiest job in the NRL. Refs will be more likely to use it as it wont necessarily determine the result, which is how 10 mins is viewed now.

    Send offs eradicated. Player replaced to take no further part in the game and leave it to the judiciary to punish him. The on field impact is 1 team having to play with 16 which isn't game defining. Don't punish the fans, don't ruin the game because a single individual has had a brain snap or been clumsy/lazy. Would probably need some caveats around f the opposition lose a player for the rest of the game (like the Slater incident), then both teams are left with 16 so what do you do ??
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    Post by Oz Sport Mad Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:36 am

    Pieman wrote:
    That's all well and good.. but ..They don't get big suspensions for tackles like this. They very rarely if ever do anyway. Thats the whole point of it. He got 3 weeks, that is a very very light suspension for the amount of risk and danger in that very illegal tackle he put on. Did he mean to? Well the fact that he kept driving him into the ground wouldnt work in his favour, but its besides the point and just about irrelevant IMO.
    Rubbish.
    Ever since the unfortunate Alex McKinnon incident, the ever reactive NRL has clearly gone down the path of (thinking they are) covering themselves by handing out hefty suspensions (relatively) every time a bloke is lifted above horizontal. It is the next hottest topic behind their reactive stance on shoulder charges.

    Risk and danger?
    People can die from intentional high tackles like Gallen was let off from this weekend...

    Driving into the ground! Please go back to the 70's and 80's to see what that was. This was clumsily rolling over with the tackle.

    Pieman wrote:
    Why dont players do coat big hangers or come charging in with an elbow any more? Or drop an elbow onto someone when they are on the ground? Because if they do they will get suspended for fucking ages. Why dont people punch any more? Suspensions and sin bins.

    Every one of these examples is for intentional incidents.
    This is precisely my point.
    Suspensions work for intentional incidents and the game is far better that these have been removed from the game.
    Suspensions and sin bins don't work as deterrents for accidents.

    Pieman wrote:
    Intent .... You cant prove intent (or its very difficult to) in situations like this. Even if there was intent to do it, the lawyers argue around it and shit, no one is ever going to admit to wanting to spear tackle someone or take someones head off. Things either happen or they dont happen. Whether someone wanted it to happen or not is pretty much totally irrelevant. If they happen, and in this case - that very bloody sickening and hard to watch tackle from Joe O - they should comp massive suspensions.

    If its not a deterrent its a punishment, and at least it gets a careless bloke who made a mistake (intentional or not) out of the game for a few months and gives him enough time to think about what he did and what he would do differently next time.

    We are not talking about life and death here.
    We subjectively rule on intent during a game and I see this no differently.
    In fact, I wouldn't even allow players to defend themselves with lawyers at the judiciary.
    The player should get to state their case and the judiciary should weigh up the evidence and subjectively decide if there was intent and any associated punishment if there was.

    It does my head in that people just assume a suspension must be applied whenever something like this happens.
    It does nothing to protect the players and has a major impact on players, teams and the fans that invest their hard earned into following the sport.

    From a risk analysis perspective the NRL is an amatuer and thus vulnerable.
    They regularly make reactive bandaid decisions in a clumsy attempt to mitigate risks.
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    Post by Pieman Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:55 pm

    Totally disagree, not going to write out another long argument about it.

    What BIG LONG suspensions have we seen in recent time? People keep doing this shit because there is no long suspension. Thats the whole point of this argument. JO got off so lightly for this disgusting tackle.

    Intentional or not - they still stopped doing them because of the suspension that came along with the crimes. The intent is irrelevant.

    taking the time to lift someone up then turn them then dump them on their head could even show more intent than a lazy high shot etc. The tackle could very well be a gone wrong, but its far from an accident. An accident is a head clash. Lifting someone and dumping them on their head then driving them into the ground is not a pure accident. Its poor technique, its reckless, its awkward and if it happens it deserves a suspension.

    Thats it tho, we all know your POV on "unintentional" contact lol
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    Post by Pieman Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:00 pm

    "Dip The "above average" player including the guy who has played 39 times for NZ, including as captain. 39 times. That's as many games as Thurston has played for Australia you know. Yeah, above average. If he is only measured as above average (and I know you use that term as a comparison to the "guns" you name, then so are all the guys you named. As a 39 game test player for one of the two best teams in the world, Blair should be regarded as in the top tier of forwards in the game (together with all origin forwards)"

    This slightly above average prop also attempts to offload it on the first tackle of the game, losing the ball which then leads to the opposition scoring the fastest try in NRL history.

    Adam Blair should be regarded as one of the top tier forwards in the game. Fucking solid LOL there Dippy.
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    Post by No Worries Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:49 pm

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    Post by MilfordTheMagician Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:05 pm

    May as well just hand the Storm the premiership because this club sure as hell can't win it.
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    Post by Pieman Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:29 pm

    Must be pretty sweet for the Eels after the comments Bennett made about them when they were beaten by Newie. 
    A couple of those broncos players deserve a week in reserve grade after that performance.
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    Post by MilfordTheMagician Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:49 pm

    Disgusting.

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    Post by Moose Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:08 pm

    Pieman wrote:Must be pretty sweet for the Eels after the comments Bennett made about them when they were beaten by Newie. 
    A couple of those broncos players deserve a week in reserve grade after that performance.

    Doesn't Bennett usually drop players after they sign for another club? Blair might find himself in reserve grade if the reports are true.
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    Post by No Worries Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:12 pm

    Did anyone else see Bennett's mistress in the crowd ? They flashed off her pretty quick. Maybe his mind wasn't on the job.
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    Post by Ice Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:12 pm

    A sound effort again by the Eels but I'm disappointed with our defence. To leak 32 with our for and against could prove very costly.

    I'll take the two wins over the Broncos for the year but it counts for nothing if we don't aim up in the finals.

    I know some Broncos fans will be bitterly disappointed but I think this could be the loss you look back on come GF day. I still really like the make up of the Broncos and think they are the only team that can halt the Storms charge.
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    Post by MilfordTheMagician Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:13 pm

    Moose wrote:

    Doesn't Bennett usually drop players after they sign for another club? Blair might find himself in reserve grade if the reports are true.

    I'd rather drop that spud and never play him again.
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    Post by Moose Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:20 pm

    Ice wrote:A sound effort again by the Eels but I'm disappointed with our defence. To leak 32 with our for and against could prove very costly.

    I'll take the two wins over the Broncos for the year but it counts for nothing if we don't aim up in the finals.

    I know some Broncos fans will be bitterly disappointed but I think this could be the loss you look back on come GF day. I still really like the make up of the Broncos and think they are the only team that can halt the Storms charge.
    You are kidding yourself if you think the Broncos are a chance of making the GF. The Broncos chances went out the window the moment McCullough went down injured.
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    Post by Moose Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:22 pm

    No Worries wrote:Did anyone else see Bennett's mistress in the crowd ? They flashed off her pretty quick. Maybe his mind wasn't on the job.

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    Post by No Worries Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:24 pm

    MilfordTheMagician wrote:

    I'd rather drop that spud and never play him again.

    Pieman wrote:

    nah he's captained his country and played more internationals than JT. Would you drop JT after 1 bad game ?

    What he said

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    Post by B/L Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:55 pm

    Im going to write tonight off as a bad night at the office and a huge wake up call that we are not as good as we might think we are. Out enthused and out run once again against the Eels.

    The only thing im worried about is that the Eels have exposed the blue print on how to beat us.

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