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    Round 21 Thread

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    Pieman

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    Re: Round 21 Thread

    Post by Pieman on Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:51 am

    @Oz Sport Mad wrote:

    It is a deadset myth that the secret to unleashing Roberts is as simple as giving him the ball early and then just watching him score tries willy nilly.
    Yeah early ball is handy but not if the defence is in a position to slide easily and close out any space.

    Roberts (attack and defence) is going well enough for me.
    Like most if not all players, it was always going to be a work in progress getting him to gel with a new team.

    As for the doom and gloom behind the scenes, I don't buy it.
    I know I am slightly biased at times when it comes to the mighty Broncos and the best coach to have ever donned a whistle and picked up a clipboard.....but to me it is nothing that a few wins and a bit of momentum won't fix.

    I dont think anyone ever said to just give him early ball and he will score tries.
    The problem is, he just doesnt get the ball enough. They dont work plays to get him the ball in place and let him try. It literally happens once a game. He is not a hole runner. He is not a dummy half runner. He is ball runner who needs the ball early so he can use his speed. It just doesnt happen enough IMO.

    I too think that the broncos will be fine and they will be in the GF.

    Oz Sport Mad

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    Re: Round 21 Thread

    Post by Oz Sport Mad on Mon Aug 01, 2016 1:50 pm

    @Pieman wrote:
    I dont think anyone ever said to just give him early ball and he will score tries.
    The problem is, he just doesnt get the ball enough. They dont work plays to get him the ball in place and let him try. It literally happens once a game. He is not a hole runner. He is not a dummy half runner. He is ball runner who needs the ball early so he can use his speed. It just doesnt happen enough IMO.

    I too think that the broncos will be fine and they will be in the GF.

    Classic Pieman.....

    Dip

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    Re: Round 21 Thread

    Post by Dip on Mon Aug 01, 2016 3:56 pm

    @leaguegod wrote:if we changed the grading system and didn't just hand out grade 1 careless high tackles to 99% of high tackle, you could just carry forward any of the actual high tackle (eg joel thompson are almost always avoidable swinging arms with a fair bit of force) that deserves it and the lower scale can come off

    lost in the jrey/frizz madness was thompson getting another grade 1, 3 other high tackles in last 12 months or somthing and only misses a week, he doesn't miss players when he goes high either


    Exactly right. I actually like the grading system provided it is used right, but a lot of points need re-assessing. For example:

    1. A trip grade one is 75 points, (reduced to 56 with an early plea and no loading) increasing by 100 points per grade. Grade 1 should probably start at 175 and go from there, or alternatively, grade 1 should only be made where the tackler has a hand on the attacker (ie the Langer tackle that was banned). If there are no hands and you throw a leg out, you should have no option but to cop a week at least.
    2. Careless, Reckless and IntentioalHigh Tackles are separate charges, each with 5 grading points. That's 15 in total, but I can't remember anything but grades 1 & 2, and very ocassionally grade 3 careless being used. Why not get rid of the the 15 gradings, and just made a charge of "High Tackles", grade 1 to 5. Careless high tackles only go up by 50 points each grade, so with an early plea you can miss nothing with a grade 2. Considering there aren't that many grade 3's, that doesn't seem right to me either.
    3. Dangerous throws start at 125 points, but then go up 200 points each grading. That doesn't seem right. Why can a grade 1 get no suspension with an early guilty plea, then grade 2 get 2 weeks? Maybe if they see dangerous throws as serious, then increase grade 1 to 150 or 175 points, and then increase it by 100 - 150 points each so you have to miss a week.
    4. Why does kicking start at 200 points when tripping starts at 75? They are both using your foot in an action that can cause injury and have no part in the game. They should start at the same level IMO, or a grade 1 kicking should maybe be less, especially when any kicking charges are usually a tackled player struggling to get to their feet to play the ball. At 200 points I reckon the MRC is virtually asking the charged player to go to the judiciary and argue accidental, unintentional contact (ala Cameron Smith and Paul Gallen), and they will probably get off wasting everyone's time. If the charge had less, then they'd be more likely to take an early plea with just carryover.
    5. the 50% good behaviour discount after 8 years is too long IMO. The vast majority of players in the NRL don't even last in the NRL 8 years. 5 Years would suffice IMO, at least for grade 1 & 2 charges.

    It doesn't seem right that clocking someone in the jaw ala Thompson, or tripping ala Reynolds has the same penalty as brushing the ref. That is exactly the sort of thing that should be fined. I bet $5000 would deter players from touching the ref more than 75 points. Start with $1000 for running at the ref to go to the video ref as well in my opinion.

    I don't mind the carryover and loading system, because to me, it penalises repeat offenders. Since the send off and sin bin are never used anymore, I can live with that. The sin bin has to be used for foul play IMO - even if for 5 minutes. It's absurd that in a close match if you hold someone down after a break and get 10 minutes, you've almost certainly cost your team the match, but you could do a grade 2 high tackle on JT or James Tedesco, get no suspension, only have a penalty against you in the match, and have their play maker or most important player either miss the rest of the game through concussion, or at least miss 15 minutes while they're being tested.

    Oz Sport Mad

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    Re: Round 21 Thread

    Post by Oz Sport Mad on Mon Aug 01, 2016 5:01 pm

    @Dip wrote:

    Exactly right. I actually like the grading system provided it is used right, but a lot of points need re-assessing. For example:

    1. A trip grade one is 75 points, (reduced to 56 with an early plea and no loading) increasing by 100 points per grade. Grade 1 should probably start at 175 and go from there, or alternatively, grade 1 should only be made where the tackler has a hand on the attacker (ie the Langer tackle that was banned). If there are no hands and you throw a leg out, you should have no option but to cop a week at least.
    2. Careless, Reckless and IntentioalHigh Tackles are separate charges, each with 5 grading points. That's 15 in total, but I can't remember anything but grades 1 & 2, and very ocassionally grade 3 careless being used. Why not get rid of the the 15 gradings, and just made a charge of "High Tackles", grade 1 to 5. Careless high tackles only go up by 50 points each grade, so with an early plea you can miss nothing with a grade 2. Considering there aren't that many grade 3's, that doesn't seem right to me either.
    3. Dangerous throws start at 125 points, but then go up 200 points each grading. That doesn't seem right. Why can a grade 1 get no suspension with an early guilty plea, then grade 2 get 2 weeks? Maybe if they see dangerous throws as serious, then increase grade 1 to 150 or 175 points, and then increase it by 100 - 150 points each so you have to miss a week.
    4. Why does kicking start at 200 points when tripping starts at 75? They are both using your foot in an action that can cause injury and have no part in the game. They should start at the same level IMO, or a grade 1 kicking should maybe be less, especially when any kicking charges are usually a tackled player struggling to get to their feet to play the ball. At 200 points I reckon the MRC is virtually asking the charged player to go to the judiciary and argue accidental, unintentional contact (ala Cameron Smith and Paul Gallen), and they will probably get off wasting everyone's time. If the charge had less, then they'd be more likely to take an early plea with just carryover.
    5. the 50% good behaviour discount after 8 years is too long IMO. The vast majority of players in the NRL don't even last in the NRL 8 years. 5 Years would suffice IMO, at least for grade 1 & 2 charges.

    It doesn't seem right that clocking someone in the jaw ala Thompson, or tripping ala Reynolds has the same penalty as brushing the ref. That is exactly the sort of thing that should be fined. I bet $5000 would deter players from touching the ref more than 75 points. Start with $1000 for running at the ref to go to the video ref as well in my opinion.

    I don't mind the carryover and loading system, because to me, it penalises repeat offenders. Since the send off and sin bin are never used anymore, I can live with that. The sin bin has to be used for foul play IMO - even if for 5 minutes. It's absurd that in a close match if you hold someone down after a break and get 10 minutes, you've almost certainly cost your team the match, but you could do a grade 2 high tackle on JT or James Tedesco, get no suspension, only have a penalty against you in the match, and have their play maker or most important player either miss the rest of the game through concussion, or at least miss 15 minutes while they're being tested.

    The problem we have Dip is that even if we re-assess and amend the gradings based on your suggestions, situations will again arise and by that time we will forget about the incidents which led to the selection of those arbitrary numbers.

    Anyway, it seems that suggesting we go back to a simplified subjective assessment that doesn't involve some sort of formula and calculation, is just swimming against the tide....so in terms of your points above, I would say:

    1. A Reynolds-esque trip is an intentional act and something that should be penalised with suspensions as a deterrent. Happy for an increase as suggested.

    2. I agree that this is simply over-complicated (difference between careless and reckless is??) but I would add that IMO no player should be sitting on the sideline for an unintentional high shot. That is something where a deterrent by suspension is completely illogical and unnecessary (i.e. there is nothing to deter if it is an accident FFS....) and is therefore penalty sufficient.

    3. The only plausible reason why you would have a low grading for a dangerous throw is to allow for the tackles that are frivolously deemed dangerous when in reality they are textbook tackles that have simply incidentally gone wrong.

    4. Rather than decrease the kicking charge I would increase the tripping charge and only have the intentional cases earmarked for suspension. We need to stop this unhealthy obsession with thinking that suspending blokes for accidental/incidental/unintentional incidents does anything to deter the next bloke. All we are doing is robbing the fans of seeing the best sides available.

    5. Happy with this suggestion but again would prefer that each instance is judged on a case by case basis and a file for each player with their incident history used instead to make the call....

    Dip

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    Re: Round 21 Thread

    Post by Dip on Mon Aug 01, 2016 7:43 pm

    The problem I have with judging everything individually is I remember how inconsistent the judiciary was before the points system.
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    code delta

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    Re: Round 21 Thread

    Post by code delta on Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:12 pm

    So does a draw mean the potentially history breaking Sharks wining run comes to an end? Very Happy
    Or are some now talking about a record breaking undefeated run? Smile

    Dip

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    Re: Round 21 Thread

    Post by Dip on Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:15 pm

    What a game!
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    Milchcow
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    Re: Round 21 Thread

    Post by Milchcow on Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:52 pm

    @code delta wrote:So does a draw mean the potentially history breaking Sharks wining run comes to an end? Very Happy
    Or are some now talking about a record breaking undefeated run? Smile

    The current record for longest unbeaten run (Eastern Suburbs 35 games in the 30s) includes multiple draws, so certainly Sharks are still in the running for that one.

    Oz Sport Mad

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    Re: Round 21 Thread

    Post by Oz Sport Mad on Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:56 am

    @Dip wrote:The problem I have with judging everything individually is I remember how inconsistent the judiciary was before the points system.

    Yeah so do I and (just like with the video ref decisions) I think I would rather inconsistency than the convoluted decision making process we are using now.

    There are other ways to fix inconsistency than trying to apply black and white rules to a grey area.

    Oz Sport Mad

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    Re: Round 21 Thread

    Post by Oz Sport Mad on Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:09 am

    @Dip wrote:What a game!

    Agreed, so good to watch an immense forward battle like that.

    Ref's copping a bit of flack in the press conf. for putting the whistle's in their pocket but I didn't mind that to be honest.
    Would have ruined the game if a nothing penalty decided the match.

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    No Worries
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    Re: Round 21 Thread

    Post by No Worries on Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:10 am

    @code delta wrote:So does a draw mean the potentially history breaking Sharks wining run comes to an end? Very Happy
    Or are some now talking about a record breaking undefeated run? Smile

    Yes the winning run is held by the 1975 Roosters at 19 games, so that's out of the window.
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    No Worries
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    Re: Round 21 Thread

    Post by No Worries on Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:25 am

    We need the bunker to rule on coin tosses now. That will do me.

    Oz Sport Mad

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    Re: Round 21 Thread

    Post by Oz Sport Mad on Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:36 am

    @No Worries wrote:We need the bunker to rule on coin tosses now. That will do me.

    I'd imagine Gallen would be immensely proud that his little protege is fully embracing his cheating ways

    Dip

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    Re: Round 21 Thread

    Post by Dip on Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:16 pm

    What a joke that Frizell got suspended at the judiciary. What's worse, brushing past the ref as you go past him, or running at him and screaming at him to go to the video ref after a try,which you'll see 20 times this weekend.
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    code delta

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    Re: Round 21 Thread

    Post by code delta on Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:26 pm

    Maybe he'd have got of if he tripped the ref.
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    Pieman

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    Re: Round 21 Thread

    Post by Pieman on Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:11 pm

    @Dip wrote:What a joke that Frizell got suspended at the judiciary. What's worse, brushing past the ref as you go past him, or running at him and screaming at him to go to the video ref after a try,which you'll see 20 times this weekend.

    totally agree.

    What friz did was, as gallen said, polite. It was as if to say, excuse me mate, sorry. It was avoiding running into the ref. Total utter joke.

    Oz Sport Mad

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    Re: Round 21 Thread

    Post by Oz Sport Mad on Tue Aug 02, 2016 11:57 pm

    @Pieman wrote:

    totally agree.

    What friz did was, as gallen said, polite. It was as if to say, excuse me mate, sorry. It was avoiding running into the ref. Total utter joke.

    Hate to admit it but I agree with fat guts, it was polite.

    Surprised more people (yourself included Pieman) aren't painting this as a Broncos conspiracy....
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    Honeysett
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    Re: Round 21 Thread

    Post by Honeysett on Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:38 am

    I'll never understand the NRL. Touching the refs is a hard and fast rule yet it's your stature in the game that dictates if you're suspended or not. Cam Smith? You're sweet. Frizz? High profile enough to be made an example of.

    Listen to the fans you fucking twats. Fine the players for shit like this so the fans don't lose out or you know what they could do? Use the sin bin. He touched the ref? You go to the bin. If we could get the level of respect for refs around the same as Union then we wouldn't have so many damn shades of grey.

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    Re: Round 21 Thread

    Post by Guest on Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:24 am

    I think its time Rabbit wrote another letter to RLW.

    leaguegod

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    Re: Round 21 Thread

    Post by leaguegod on Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:36 am

    i can somewhat understand the idea of a zero tolerance but why sit out our best players over it and why do they seemingly missed every 2nd occurrence of it


    just give a small fine to everyone who touches the ref, fines gets bigger if you do it again. only suspend them if its worthy (in an aggressive or semi aggressive manner)


    guys yelling at refs (as dip said, happens multiple times every week) or jamie lyon basically calling them cheats is 100% worse then what friz did

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