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    2017 World Cup

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    Re: 2017 World Cup

    Post by Guest on Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:36 pm

    Pieman wrote:So the world cup will the JT's rep swansong.
    Who wears the 6 after him?

    The QLD 5/8th
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    Re: 2017 World Cup

    Post by No Worries on Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:29 pm

    Pieman wrote:So the world cup will the JT's rep swansong.
    Who wears the 6 after him?



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    Re: 2017 World Cup

    Post by Guest on Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:44 pm

    Here Fishy Fishy

    Fishing
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    Pieman

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    Re: 2017 World Cup

    Post by Pieman on Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:43 pm

    Bren wrote:
    The QLD 5/8th

    and who will that be?
    Milford? Morgan? MBye?

    If Moylan plays 6 for NSW, he could be the next one.

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    Re: 2017 World Cup

    Post by Dip on Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:48 pm

    Haha. Joey wishes he was as good as JT. Even his own brother thinks JT is better.

    Come to think of it, for the first half of his career Joey wished he was as good as Langer, Stuart, Toovey, Kimmorley or any of the other players picked in front of him who I may have missed.

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    Re: 2017 World Cup

    Post by Dip on Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:49 pm

    Pieman wrote:

    and who will that be?
    Milford? Morgan? MBye?

    If Moylan plays 6 for NSW, he could be the next one.
    You'd have to think Maloney would be a big chance.
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    Re: 2017 World Cup

    Post by Honeysett on Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:23 am

    Dip wrote:Haha. Joey wishes he was as good as JT. Even his own brother thinks JT is better.

    Come to think of it, for the first half of his career Joey wished he was as good as Langer, Stuart, Toovey, Kimmorley or any of the other players picked in front of him who I may have missed.

    Using that logic Brett Kenny is a better player than Wally Lewis.

    JT wishes he could tackle.
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    Re: 2017 World Cup

    Post by Pieman on Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:50 am

    I dont see how anyone could put JT over Joey, or Joey over JT.
    They are both the best halfbacks of their generations.
    Neither one stands out over the other IMO, both legends and JT should be an immortal.



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    Re: 2017 World Cup

    Post by Random on Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:57 am

    Pieman wrote:So the world cup will the JT's rep swansong.
    Who wears the 6 after him?


    Morgan, Milford, Hunt, DCE have got to be leading the charge. However it wouldn't surprise me if Pearce gets a crack at it.

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    Re: 2017 World Cup

    Post by Oz Sport Mad on Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:06 am

    Pieman wrote:So the world cup will the JT's rep swansong.
    Who wears the 6 after him?


    You'd have to think they will select Milf based on his club combination with BHunt, who will obviously be there also.

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    Re: 2017 World Cup

    Post by Dip on Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:06 am

    Honeysett wrote:

    Using that logic Brett Kenny is a better player than Wally Lewis.

    JT wishes he could tackle.

    Nothing like it. For 3 months in 1982 Lewis probably wished he was as good as Kenny as well. That's nothing like the 8 seasons where Johns was only picked in front of those guys for one match.

    Still, I agree with Pieman. Both are the best halfbacks of their era and it has been a pleasure to watch them both with their own styles. Same with Lewis, Lockyer, Langer, Fittler, Burgess, SBW etc. Personally I put more weight on someone who was at that level for over 10 years rather than 5 or 6. It's nice to troll and have debate in the off season though.

    P.S. Johns was a fantastic front on defender as well where Thurston isn't. By the same token Thurston makes tackles after breaks where in the same situation Johns would be on the half way line with his hands on his knees sucking in the big ones (as would 95% of other NRL players in the history of the game).

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    Re: 2017 World Cup

    Post by Oz Sport Mad on Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:36 am

    Dip wrote:

    Nothing like it. For 3 months in 1982 Lewis probably wished he was as good as Kenny as well. That's nothing like the 8 seasons where Johns was only picked in front of those guys for one match.

    Still, I agree with Pieman. Both are the best halfbacks of their era and it has been a pleasure to watch them both with their own styles. Same with Lewis, Lockyer, Langer, Fittler, Burgess, SBW etc. Personally I put more weight on someone who was at that level for over 10 years rather than 5 or 6. It's nice to troll and have debate in the off season though.

    P.S. Johns was a fantastic front on defender as well where Thurston isn't. By the same token Thurston makes tackles after breaks where in the same situation Johns would be on the half way line with his hands on his knees sucking in the big ones (as would 95% of other NRL players in the history of the game).

    Haha such a good point.

    Another point to note is that (similar to BHunt) Johns may have developed a good front on tackling technique (and a similarly large arse) due to his time playing hooker whilst he was unable to make team's in his preferred position.....

    It's a funny one defence.

    Many knocked Locky over the years mainly due to his size and the uneducated masses noticing he wasn't able to sit anyone on their backside - but by the end of his career, his read's in defence and his ability to slow down the player if not take them down himself, were immense.
    Simpleton's still would knock the bloke for his defence but in reality he was a fantastic defender by then.

    As for the Johns vs JT debate, I still think Alf was the best halfback I have seen.

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    Re: 2017 World Cup

    Post by Dip on Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:51 pm

    Oz Sport Mad wrote:

    Haha such a good point.

    Another point to note is that (similar to BHunt) Johns may have developed a good front on tackling technique (and a similarly large arse) due to his time playing hooker whilst he was unable to make team's in his preferred position.....

    It's a funny one defence.

    Many knocked Locky over the years mainly due to his size and the uneducated masses noticing he wasn't able to sit anyone on their backside - but by the end of his career, his read's in defence and his ability to slow down the player if not take them down himself, were immense.
    Simpleton's still would knock the bloke for his defence but in reality he was a fantastic defender by then.

    As for the Johns vs JT debate, I still think Alf was the best halfback I have seen.

    Yeah that's right about Locky. In terms of missing tackles that really made much of a difference, for example letting in a try or line break, I only really remember it happening a couple of times in a career of over 400 games (Creagh in Origin once, and a particularly forgetful game against Ben Roberts of all people). I certainly notice more the line breaks or tries that have been let in by defenders like Milford, Moloney, even someone like Andrew Fifita. It is possible to improve your defence. Gillett is a far better defender than he used to be, and Corey Norman is good now, whereas in his early days his defence was embarrassing.

    These days, 95% of players who would be running at halves in the defensive line are over 95kg as well, so there is more scrutiny on them than ever before.

    Johns was always a terrific defender. I don't think the couple of games a year he played at hooker would have made much of a difference, compared to someone like Hunt, who spent seasons there.

    JT also goes for, and gets more one on one strips than anyone in the game at the moment. If you're going to diss his front on defence, you also need to give him credit for that and his cover defence.
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    Re: 2017 World Cup

    Post by Pieman on Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:30 am

    If you want to talk about playing out of position, why was JT playing 6 instead of 7 for a fair chunk of his rep career. Still does. Is cronk a better halfback than JT? Fuck no. But its the best thing for the team. (I am aware that he played 6 for a few years at club level, but we will ignore that for this post)

    Was Kimmorley a better 7 than Johns? Fuck no, but having them both in the side was the best thing for the team. Its amazing that johns was good enough to be the best hooker in the game and he never even really played there. And no, he was put in hooker because of his tackling, he didnt learn to tackle playing hooker.






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    Re: 2017 World Cup

    Post by Dip on Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:31 am

    When Kimmorley was half Johns was on the bench, not hooker.
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    Re: 2017 World Cup

    Post by dasherhalo on Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:16 am

    Oz Sport Mad wrote:

    You'd have to think they will select Milf based on his club combination with BHunt, who will obviously be there also.

    Oops silent
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    Re: 2017 World Cup

    Post by Pieman on Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:34 pm

    Dip wrote:When Kimmorley was half Johns was on the bench, not hooker.
    wasnt johns coming back from injury that origin series?
    pretty sure he missed the first game then was coming back from an ankle injury or something
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    Re: 2017 World Cup

    Post by Honeysett on Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:44 pm

    Some great points made by the canetoads as well as Pieman.

    JT's never say die attitude is the best I have ever seen, ever. He will not give up on a play even when it's doomed. I don't think I've ever seen him successful in one of his late attempts at trying to tackle the run away player but that doesn't diminish the fact he's always there, that attitude reflects in why he's such a brilliant player.

    He's the best player on his generation bar none. I rate him far ahead of every player I have ever watched, except Joey. However it's difficult to give an unbiased opinion as when I was watching Joey it was as a Knights fan and NSWelshman. I would have loved to see the battles that Joey and JT could have had, Johns strength has a gameplan to absolute dictate the tempo of the game and made sure it played into his hands so I would have liked to see if JT could overcome that.

    JT should be an immortal by the end of his career, as far as team of the last 100 years well we'll never truly get an answer.

    For those interested my list of best players I have ever seen

    Joey
    JT
    Lockyer
    Smith
    Fittler

    With Buderus unlucky to miss out, people forget how good he is because Smith was better at the time.
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    Re: 2017 World Cup

    Post by No Worries on Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:59 am

    Why Smith ? He's pedestrian at best compared to the rest of your list

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    Re: 2017 World Cup

    Post by Dip on Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:03 pm

    IMO (and I think Johns was fantastic), the lack of NSW success in the last decade has lead their supporters to over romanticise how great things from the past were (namely John's standing in League history). It's a bit like when people talk about how much better the football quality and crowds were back in the 80s. Then you see an old game on fox and in reality they were playing in front of 7000, at least one tackle every set was a jersey sling, and only about 2 players on the team could pass to the right without it being a moonball. Then you'd see a scrum.

      Current date/time is Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:46 am