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    Round 14 Match Thread

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    Pieman

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    Re: Round 14 Match Thread

    Post by Pieman on Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:00 pm

    Dip wrote: I only saw it on the highlights, but what was the go with that Tony Williams pass to himself? I thought they outlawed that back in Dally Messengers day.

    I think because he didnt do it on purpose that they let it go...
    Absolute fuck up, just because he didnt mean to do it doesnt mean it ok to just let go.
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    Honeysett
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    Re: Round 14 Match Thread

    Post by Honeysett on Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:11 pm

    Pieman wrote:

    I think because he didnt do it on purpose that they let it go...
    Absolute fuck up, just because he didnt mean to do it doesnt mean it ok to just let go.

    Why? It happens all the time, it's only because it went more forward than it usually does. If someone knocks the ball forward and regathers it's play on.
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    No Worries
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    Re: Round 14 Match Thread

    Post by No Worries on Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:45 pm

    Don't all the knock on off head and passing forward rules mention deliberate to gain an advantage or something similar ?
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    Revraiser

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    Re: Round 14 Match Thread

    Post by Revraiser on Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:44 pm

    Cancelled out the cowboys again. Up the.mighty Sharks !

    leaguegod

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    Re: Round 14 Match Thread

    Post by leaguegod on Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:52 pm

    Havnt watched it with comentary but live at the game I was always confident it would be given


    Williams tries to pass it back, some how hits own hands and then re gathers before it hits the ground or a st George player. No one could say it was deliberate, it can't be ruled a knock on so I thought it had to be play on


    Only tony Williams could get in the way of his own pass lol

    Dip

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    Re: Round 14 Match Thread

    Post by Dip on Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:49 am

    But I thought had ever actually let go of it, making it a forward pass not a knock on.

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    Re: Round 14 Match Thread

    Post by leaguegod on Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:45 am

    Dip wrote:But I thought had ever actually let go of it, making it a forward pass not a knock on.

    Passed back into an accidental touch from itself which would be the knock on if it touched the ground or a saints player

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    Re: Round 14 Match Thread

    Post by Dip on Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:37 am

    If that's what they ruled that's one thing, but from what I see (below between about 3:17 & 3:20 shows the front on view pretty clearly I reckon) he doesn't pass it back, his left hand never leaves the ball. That doesn't make it a knock on, that makes it a bad pass.

    There's nothing to say that a forward pass has to be to someone else, so that's still a forward pass in my opinion. It doesn't matter that it's accidental. I haven't seen an intentional forward pass called for a decade, so you'd have to then say that every forward pass that is called is accidental. I don't see it as being any different to when the marker reaches around and slaps the arm, not the ball, and the ball then dribbles forward from the dummy half.

    The only thing I can think of is that the video ref can't rule on a forward pass. Since they can rule on that, then the only thing he could rule on was a knock on or an intentional lob over the defender, and I agree it wasn't either of those.
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    Pieman

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    Re: Round 14 Match Thread

    Post by Pieman on Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:28 am

    Honeysett wrote:

    Why? It happens all the time, it's only because it went more forward than it usually does. If someone knocks the ball forward and regathers it's play on.
    It happens all the time? No it doesnt.

    You cant throw the ball forward then re-gather its a penalty.
    Just because he didnt mean to throw it forward doesnt mean its play on. You cant head high someone and be like, I didnt mean it - so its play on.
    He accidently threw it forward, got an advantage out of it, regathered and they scored.

    Its the Dally Messenger rule
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    Honeysett
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    Re: Round 14 Match Thread

    Post by Honeysett on Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:34 am

    Pieman wrote:
    It happens all the time? No it doesnt.

    You cant throw the ball forward then re-gather its a penalty.
    Just because he didnt mean to throw it forward doesnt mean its play on. You cant head high someone and be like, I didnt mean it - so its play on.
    He accidently threw it forward, got an advantage out of it, regathered and they scored.

    Its the Dally Messenger rule

    He doesn't throw it forward. He was passing to his left, he's hit and the ball gets dislodged and knocks his hand and goes forward. He regathers legally and scores. Because he doesn't mean to is exactly why it's not a penalty, the rule states you can't deliberately propel it forward, he didn't do it on purpose and it was lost in the action of passing and being tackled. Play on, try.
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    Pieman

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    Re: Round 14 Match Thread

    Post by Pieman on Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:37 am

    Dip wrote:If that's what they ruled that's one thing, but from what I see (below between about 3:17 & 3:20 shows the front on view pretty clearly I reckon) he doesn't pass it back, his left hand never leaves the ball. That doesn't make it a knock on, that makes it a bad pass.

    There's nothing to say that a forward pass has to be to someone else, so that's still a forward pass in my opinion. It doesn't matter that  it's accidental. I haven't seen an intentional forward pass called for a decade, so you'd have to then say that every forward pass that is called is accidental. I don't see it as being any different to when the marker reaches around and slaps the arm, not the ball, and the ball then dribbles forward from the dummy half.

    The only thing I can think of is that the video ref can't rule on a forward pass. Since they can rule on that, then the only thing he could rule on was a knock on or an intentional lob over the defender, and I agree it wasn't either of those.

    This post is spot on

    It was a forward pass, but because the video ref cant rule on forward passes - it was play on.
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    Pieman

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    Re: Round 14 Match Thread

    Post by Pieman on Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:39 am

    Honeysett wrote:

    He doesn't throw it forward. He was passing to his left, he's hit and the ball gets dislodged and knocks his hand and goes forward. He regathers legally and scores. Because he doesn't mean to is exactly why it's not a penalty, the rule states you can't deliberately propel it forward, he didn't do it on purpose and it was lost in the action of passing and being tackled. Play on, try.

    When are forward passes ever classed as deliberate? Never.
    He is in the motion of passing it, so its a pass.

    He loses the ball by accidentally hitting it with his left hand while in the motion of passing it, it travels forward, they get an advantage and he scores.
    It should have been called a forward pass IMO by the on field ref.

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    Re: Round 14 Match Thread

    Post by Dip on Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:24 am

    Whoops, here's the link I refer to at 3:17.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_819_1QuVM
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    Honeysett
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    Re: Round 14 Match Thread

    Post by Honeysett on Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:40 am

    Pieman wrote:

    When are forward passes ever classed as deliberate? Never.
    He is in the motion of passing it, so its a pass.

    He loses the ball by accidentally hitting it with his left hand while in the motion of passing it, it travels forward, they get an advantage and he scores.
    It should have been called a forward pass IMO by the on field ref.

    "He loses the ball by accidentally hitting it with his left hand while in the motion of passing it"

    So it's a knock on. No different from a player losing the ball in a hit up and regathered it before it hits a player. The only difference is it's a metre further down the field and not straight away. By your definition a player could never bobble or juggle a ball.

    You can't deliberately throw it forward but it's not a throw. He's losing control when he's hit and he regathers. Correct decision and that's why it was awarded a try.
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    Pieman

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    Re: Round 14 Match Thread

    Post by Pieman on Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:01 pm

    Honeysett wrote:

    "He loses the ball by accidentally hitting it with his left hand while in the motion of passing it"

    So it's a knock on. No different from a player losing the ball in a hit up and regathered it before it hits a player. The only difference is it's a metre further down the field and not straight away. By your definition a player could never bobble or juggle a ball.

    You can't deliberately throw it forward but it's not a throw. He's losing control when he's hit and he regathers. Correct decision and that's why it was awarded a try.

    No, He is in the motion of passing it, so its a pass.
    The ball hasnt even left his right hand by the time the left hand knocks it out - its the passing motion that knocks. He then taps it forward, in the passing motion, over the line then they score. Its a pass. A forward pass. To himself. Which you cant do.
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    Honeysett
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    Re: Round 14 Match Thread

    Post by Honeysett on Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:21 pm

    Pieman wrote:

    No, He is in the motion of passing it, so its a pass.
    The ball hasnt even left his right hand by the time the left hand knocks it out - its the passing motion that knocks. He then taps it forward, in the passing motion, over the line then they score. Its a pass. A forward pass. To himself. Which you cant do.

    Has he lost the ball or has the ball never left his hand because you've changed your mind in two posts.

    It's not a forward pass because he loses control of the ball, it's a potential knock on that he regathers. It's a shit way to score but it's a try.

    Oz Sport Mad

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    Re: Round 14 Match Thread

    Post by Oz Sport Mad on Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:34 pm

    Honeysett wrote:

    "He loses the ball by accidentally hitting it with his left hand while in the motion of passing it"

    So it's a knock on. No different from a player losing the ball in a hit up and regathered it before it hits a player. The only difference is it's a metre further down the field and not straight away. By your definition a player could never bobble or juggle a ball.

    You can't deliberately throw it forward but it's not a throw. He's losing control when he's hit and he regathers. Correct decision and that's why it was awarded a try.

    Exactly right.

    The only question here is whether you think it was deliberate or not (and thankfully the rules still allow that subjectivity).

    Pretty clear it wasn't deliberate and I think certainly a fair try.
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    Pieman

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    Re: Round 14 Match Thread

    Post by Pieman on Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:35 pm

    Honeysett wrote:

    Has he lost the ball or has the ball never left his hand because you've changed your mind in two posts.

    It's not a forward pass because he loses control of the ball, it's a potential knock on that he regathers. It's a shit way to score but it's a try.

    Well if you read another 9 words you would see that I said - its in the motion of the pass, hasnt left his hand then the other hand knocks it out. Its a pass. Its a bad pass that goes forward.

    Anyway, thats what I reckon, you're entitled to your own

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    Re: Round 14 Match Thread

    Post by Oz Sport Mad on Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:51 pm

    Pieman wrote:

    Well if you read another 9 words you would see that I said - its in the motion of the pass, hasnt left his hand then the other hand knocks it out. Its a pass. Its a bad pass that goes forward.

    Anyway, thats what I reckon, you're entitled to your own

    I think the confusion we have is that what you are describing sounds like a fumble during the motion of a pass.....which ultimately is still a fumble.
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    Pieman

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    Re: Round 14 Match Thread

    Post by Pieman on Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:03 pm

    No, its ultimately a pass.

    He does it in the motion of passing, thats why its a forward pass. Its essentially the same thing as winding up to throw a pass and it slips out of your hands and goes forward. In this case, he's winding up the pass, it hasnt left his right hand yet, the other hand hits it, he loses it and it goes forward it then travels forward, a fair way too, then he regathers it on the other side of the defensive line and they score.

    He even reacts and tips it up - which is a deliberate tap over the line

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