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    Salary Cap Change

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    ryno_

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    Re: Salary Cap Change

    Post by ryno_ on Mon May 09, 2016 8:13 am

    Dip wrote:Look at the arguments over who is the bast NSW Halfback then see if you want to get someone to rank 400 players in order from best to worst.

    400. Blake Ashyford.

    Thats 1 done without any arguments.

    Another problem with allocating points is - do you count city v country as a rep game? Playing for tonga off the bench as a test? Also, after a world cup youll have 50odd players whose point "value" will skyrocket over night.

    Im not convinced that the salary cap isnt working - the comp is closer now then it ever has been.
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    Milchcow
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    Re: Salary Cap Change

    Post by Milchcow on Mon May 09, 2016 10:03 am

    Having a player rating system would be great fun

    Could you imagine all the politicking and shenanigans going as everyone tries to make sure their best players don't get rated too high.
    Maybe play Thurston off the bench for a couple of games to keep his ratings down. Good players would get rested a lot more if its going to impact their future in the team if they play too much.

    If it did happen, would probably see the rich clubs buying up all the best young kids on long term contracts, before their ratings get too high. Then later on try and shaft the duds out to super league or wherever.

    Dip

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    Re: Salary Cap Change

    Post by Dip on Mon May 09, 2016 10:18 am

    I will also say that while I like the idea of a tax, I don't think it really changes any incentive for clubs to rort. I think you'll still get clubs suggesting to potential sponsors to have TPA's with players so that the payment is excluded from the cap and they can therefore sign better players before a penalty tax kicks in.

    You still need to allow TPA's exclusive from the cap. There are players in the past how get a premium from sponsors due to their marketability rather than their playing ability. I'm sure in the past guys like Benji Marshall, Ben Barba, Allan Langer, Nathan Hindmarsh, Willie Mason etc would have got extra sponsorship due solely to their marketability.
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    Pieman

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    Re: Salary Cap Change

    Post by Pieman on Mon May 09, 2016 2:18 pm

    Milchcow wrote:Having a player rating system would be great fun

    Could you imagine all the politicking and shenanigans going as everyone tries to make sure their best players don't get rated too high.
    Maybe play Thurston off the bench for a couple of games to keep his ratings down. Good players would get rested a lot more if its going to impact their future in the team if they play too much.

    If it did happen, would probably see the rich clubs buying up all the best young kids on long term contracts, before their ratings get too high. Then later on try and shaft the duds out to super league or wherever.

    exactly
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    Krump

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    Re: Salary Cap Change

    Post by Krump on Thu May 12, 2016 7:27 am

    With the ratings system I'd give each team a number of points and they bid for players with those rather than cash. EG, one point=100k and teams are allocated 70 points and can't go over that, TPA's are a free for all with players doing what they please.
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    Pieman

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    Re: Salary Cap Change

    Post by Pieman on Thu May 12, 2016 10:50 am

    Krump wrote:With the ratings system I'd give each team a number of points and they bid for players with those rather than cash. EG, one point=100k and teams are allocated 70 points and can't go over that, TPA's are a free for all with players doing what they please.

    Then you still have the same problem with the one city teams or more marketable teams just having a monopoly on the comp. Just like now.
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    Krump

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    Re: Salary Cap Change

    Post by Krump on Thu May 12, 2016 11:29 am

    Pieman wrote:

    Then you still have the same problem with the one city teams or more marketable teams just having a monopoly on the comp. Just like now.
    Not at all, I'd have players going to the team that offers the most points for them rather than who can find the most TPA's. Using Milford for example if Brisbane say he's worth 4 points but Canberra say he's worth 5 then he stays at the Raiders. If clubs still want to find TPA's for players that's fine but the players point value doesn't go down. 
    The only issue I see is that allowances would need to be made for junior development and long serving players.
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    Honeysett
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    Re: Salary Cap Change

    Post by Honeysett on Thu May 12, 2016 11:44 am

    KISS method, that would confuse 90% of the NRL fan base.

    Let the players earn whatever they want outside of the cap, set up a program within the NRL where they are the ones that make the deals for the players. Companies can go straight to the NRL and say we want player X to drive this car around, NRL approves, player X gets the car. Take it out of the clubs hands because they clearly rout it.
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    dasherhalo

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    Re: Salary Cap Change

    Post by dasherhalo on Thu May 12, 2016 7:18 pm

    Friend of mine said a points system used in the women's basketball league showed promise. Every side rates each player in their side and every other side a value from 1 to 25. Every club has to stay within a hard limit of points per year.

    So, you could load up on superstars and hope the injury gods are nice, or play it a bit safer.

    Ironically they have also brought in a complimentary salary cap in addition to the point ts system.




    I hated the idea, but it's not without its merits. I
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    Pieman

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    Re: Salary Cap Change

    Post by Pieman on Thu May 12, 2016 10:39 pm

    Honeysett wrote:KISS method, that would confuse 90% of the NRL fan base.

    Let the players earn whatever they want outside of the cap, set up a program within the NRL where they are the ones that make the deals for the players. Companies can go straight to the NRL and say we want player X to drive this car around, NRL approves, player X gets the car. Take it out of the clubs hands because they clearly rout it.

    Taking it out of the clubs hands is just about the only way to stop the rorting.
    Even then though I could see the NRL favouring some clubs over others or some players over others.

    "Oh sorry mate billy slater already does a car ad... you can use Tedesco tho"
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    Mighty Fishes
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    Re: Salary Cap Change

    Post by Mighty Fishes on Thu May 12, 2016 10:50 pm

    It's a tricky one because I feel like players shouldn't have their salaries on display. I believe its private. I work in a bank and everyone one who is a higher level than I am can see what's in my account and i'm the lowest level in the branch because im the newest by a long way. I hate that they can see it it's private its why I bank elsewhere.  Now I hate that and its only 4 other people who can see it. I would imagine the whole country knowing what you get paid and then they probably will cop criticism a lot more through the media whether or not that particular player is worth the money.

    I think something does need to be done teams will keep rorting it. Some will get away with it some will get caught.
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    dasherhalo

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    Re: Salary Cap Change

    Post by dasherhalo on Fri May 13, 2016 7:34 am

    What about registering all payments with the nrl in private, as well as the players tax returns?

    It doesn't have to be made public.
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    ryno_

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    Re: Salary Cap Change

    Post by ryno_ on Fri May 13, 2016 7:55 am

    Mighty Fishes wrote:It's a tricky one because I feel like players shouldn't have their salaries on display. I believe its private. I work in a bank and everyone one who is a higher level than I am can see what's in my account and i'm the lowest level in the branch because im the newest by a long way. I hate that they can see it it's private its why I bank elsewhere.  Now I hate that and its only 4 other people who can see it. I would imagine the whole country knowing what you get paid and then they probably will cop criticism a lot more through the media whether or not that particular player is worth the money.

    I think something does need to be done teams will keep rorting it. Some will get away with it some will get caught.

    I get your point... but American athletes seem to manage just fine. And they have the smallest details of their contract publicly available - for example http://overthecap.com/contracts/denver-broncos/

    Youve got Talib and Harris Jnr, play the same position left and right side of the field, best pairing in the league and are arguably as good as each other... Cant tell me that Harris doesnt know that Talib is on $1M more then him this year.

    In other news, looking over the list of CBs in the league by contract size... jesus there are some overpaid players.
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    Milchcow
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    Re: Salary Cap Change

    Post by Milchcow on Fri May 13, 2016 11:48 am

    Mighty Fishes wrote:It's a tricky one because I feel like players shouldn't have their salaries on display. I believe its private. I work in a bank and everyone one who is a higher level than I am can see what's in my account and i'm the lowest level in the branch because im the newest by a long way. I hate that they can see it it's private its why I bank elsewhere.  Now I hate that and its only 4 other people who can see it. I would imagine the whole country knowing what you get paid and then they probably will cop criticism a lot more through the media whether or not that particular player is worth the money.
    .

    I'm not sure what bank you work at, but that just sounds crap.

    I refuse to believe there is no policy where your co-workers are allowed to look at your bank balance. They'd have authority to do so, because otherwise they wouldn't be able to do their job, but it would have to be against policy to snoop on co-workers. Managers are obviously going to be aware of your salary, and co-workers will have a reasonable idea but that is the case in every organisation in the world.

    I've had a job at a bank where it was possible to look at the bank balance (and all sorts of any other details) of any single customer in the bank. But if I did so without good reason and got caught I would be busted out of there in a flash.
    (and if it was something done regularly, eventually you'd get caught. They log everything and have anti-fraud teams that look for that sort of shit)
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    SI
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    Re: Salary Cap Change

    Post by SI on Fri May 13, 2016 12:03 pm

    dasherhalo wrote:What about registering all payments with the nrl in private, as well as the players tax returns?

    It doesn't have to be made public.

    This seems so easy and effective that there must be some reason they don't it. Can't think of one though.
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    Honeysett
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    Re: Salary Cap Change

    Post by Honeysett on Fri May 13, 2016 12:08 pm

    SI wrote:

    This seems so easy and effective that there must be some reason they don't it.  Can't think of one though.

    Because it's easy and effective.
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    SI
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    Re: Salary Cap Change

    Post by SI on Fri May 13, 2016 12:26 pm

    Idea

    Oz Sport Mad

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    Re: Salary Cap Change

    Post by Oz Sport Mad on Fri May 13, 2016 1:00 pm

    SI wrote:

    This seems so easy and effective that there must be some reason they don't it.  Can't think of one though.

    Isn't this pretty much what currently happens??

    The TPA 'issue' is one that is consistently bandied about and appears to be despised by all and sundry but people just need to realise there isn't much that can be done and it isn't much of an issue anyway as far as I'm concerned.

    In my opinion there are way bigger inequalities when it comes to evening out the competition and for many players a small difference in cash isn't always the only determining factor.

    Some of the biggest inequalities directly benefit my club e.g. we have attracted the best coach and therefore probably receive a discount across our entire squad based on blokes wanting to play under Bennett and the opportunities that almost guarantees them.
    Cost of living is also cheaper (compared to Sydney/Melbourne) and Bris/Gold Coast is also far less of a shithole than say Penrith or Canberra.

    Instead of blowing up about TPA's which the NRL has done all they can do, these are the aspects I would be blowing up about if I was a fan of another club.
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    Honeysett
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    Re: Salary Cap Change

    Post by Honeysett on Fri May 13, 2016 1:08 pm

    Penrith isn't as bad as some of the places I visited in Brisbane.

    The Valley (not comparing just making a point) is one of the biggest shitholes I've ever seen.

    But you do make a good point, however as the AFL has seen with the Swans cost of living allowance it puts the rest of the NRL noses out of joint. If a Perth team is ever introduced we will need a COLA because we're more expensive than Sydney or Melbourne is all major areas. It's pretty crazy.

    Oz Sport Mad

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    Re: Salary Cap Change

    Post by Oz Sport Mad on Fri May 13, 2016 2:19 pm

    Honeysett wrote:Penrith isn't as bad as some of the places I visited in Brisbane.

    The Valley (not comparing just making a point) is one of the biggest shitholes I've ever seen.

    But you do make a good point, however as the AFL has seen with the Swans cost of living allowance it puts the rest of the NRL noses out of joint. If a Perth team is ever introduced we will need a COLA because we're more expensive than Sydney or Melbourne is all major areas. It's pretty crazy.

    Mate the mining boom is over and by the time a Perth team is back on the radar it will be cheaper than living in Ipswich.

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