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    Australian XVII

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    Pieman

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    Re: Australian XVII

    Post by Pieman on Mon May 02, 2016 5:20 pm

    Ice wrote:

    Im currently being proven correct on the Morgan/Milford stuff, Morgan is playing, Milford isn't and rightfully so, because Morgan provides better utility and is in equally as good form, and i accept i may be proven wrong on Milford long term, but i doubt it. I just am baffled that i guy play some good footy early in the season and people seem absolutely amazed he isn't first guy on the Aus team sheet.  Please, Morgan has done it at Origin level and in a GF, just like Boyd, we don't go (or shouldn't go) handing out Aus jerseys for less than half a season of good form.

    Re Boyd at FB, i understand you don't agree with it and its your opinion and i respect that, you have an opinion, which you are entitled to, even if its wrong, no use us laboring the point. Boyd was the logical and correct decision at FB and so it has been proven, so we can move on from that.

    Teddy is MILES off Hayne form and even Slater form for that matter. Its a bit like comparing Josh Hodgson with Cam Smith, I mean really, Josh is leading the Dally M's, is going great, but he isn't anywhere near the class of Smith at his best.

    Less than half a season of good form?
    Milford was the best player on the field in last year's gf. He was brilliant last year - he isnt there because Kev asked mal not to pick any of those banned QLD players. Its a valid argument.
    I like morgan - and the utility argument - just comes down to opinion. I can call your opinion wrong too - but how long is a piece of string? Just because he was selected there - doesnt mean its the right call. Its just, The Call.

    And I know youre a hayne fanboy, so was I, but if you think he is not even close to being as good as him or slater - youre wrong. Sure, he has only done it for a season, doesnt change the fact hes doing it right now and did it last season too.

    This year so far, Josh Hodgson has been as good or better than cam smith. If he can keep doing it for a decade, he will go down as one of the greats. Same with tedesco. Boyd is a rep winger, he has played just about all of his rep on the wing, and thats where he should be playing.
    Boyd is one of the great rep WINGERS. Its where he belongs in rep footy.





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    Pieman

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    Re: Australian XVII

    Post by Pieman on Mon May 02, 2016 5:22 pm

    dasherhalo wrote:Here's how I see Boyd/Teddy

    Mal: one off test - his first.
    Boyd: massively experienced. Very low risk. Won't let him down
    Tedesco: possibly the next big thing. No rep experience. Greeeeaaat form.

    I think the biggest factor in all that is that's a one off test: I imagine that's huge. Coming from coaching Queensland, Mal's looking for an easy transition. I wouldn't be reading too much into it apart from that.

    Me personally, I'd be looking for some NSW duties first

    Yeah spot on
    Its a safe selection.

    Personally, I dont think its the right one - and some people do.

    Im not saying he wont do a good job, I think he will be really good there.

    Dip

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    Re: Australian XVII

    Post by Dip on Mon May 02, 2016 5:35 pm

    Milf was never going to make the team. The only way he was going to make 5/8 was if they dropped Cronk and that wasn't going to happen. As a utility he can really only play 5/8 or fullback. The team has Boyd, Dugan, Ferguson and GI who have been at Fullback this year so it really only means he is covering 5/8. On the 95% chance JT or Cronk aren't injured, Morgan is the best option as you would have no drama defensively covering centre, hooker or the back row.

    Ice

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    Re: Australian XVII

    Post by Ice on Mon May 02, 2016 5:45 pm

    Pieman wrote:

    Less than half a season of good form?
    Milford was the best player on the field in last year's gf. He was brilliant last year - he isnt there because Kev asked mal not to pick any of those banned QLD players. Its a valid argument.
    I like morgan - and the utility argument - just comes down to opinion. I can call your opinion wrong too - but how long is a piece of string? Just because he was selected there - doesnt mean its the right call. Its just, The Call.

    And I know youre a hayne fanboy, so was I, but if you think he is not even close to being as good as him or slater - youre wrong. Sure, he has only done it for a season, doesnt change the fact hes doing it right now and did it last season too.

    This year so far, Josh Hodgson has been as good or better than cam smith. If he can keep doing it for a decade, he will go down as one of the greats. Same with tedesco. Boyd is a rep winger, he has played just about all of his rep on the wing, and thats where he should be playing.
    Boyd is one of the great rep WINGERS. Its where he belongs in rep footy.






    Pieman, you're killing me Bro. Milf was very good at the back end of last and has been again into this year, but he was not going to be selected for Aus and its debatable that he was going to be selected for Qld given the performance of team 3 last year. They weren't going to drop Morgan. You could call my opinion on that wrong, but you'd be wrong.

    I'm not wrong either about how good Tedesco is right now compared to Hayne and Slater, that's not opinion, that's a stone cold fact. Teddy now is going good, but he isn't close to Hayne or Slater at their best, nor is Hodgson to Smith. Sure, this year Hodgson might be the "form" hooker, but if you had to pick a team to play for your life tomorrow, I'm pretty sure you'll struggle to find anyone that would take Hodgson over Smith, hell, i doubt his parents would. He won't keep doing it for a decade. He will be very good, possible one of England's best, but one of the greats? Please.

    Boyd isn't one of the great rep wingers, he will never go down as a great regardless of his record, when people talk in decades to come, nobody will EVER say "I saw the great Darius Boyd play back in the day" nobody will ever remember where they were the day he retired, or regale their grand-kids with stories of his brilliance, but right now, in May 2016, he is without doubt the logical and most deserving choice for Fullback of the Australian side. End of story.
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    Pieman

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    Re: Australian XVII

    Post by Pieman on Mon May 02, 2016 10:00 pm

    Ice wrote:

    Pieman, you're killing me Bro.  Milf was very good at the back end of last and has been again into this year, but he was not going to be selected for Aus and its debatable that he was going to be selected for Qld given the performance of team 3 last year. They weren't going to drop Morgan. You could call my opinion on that wrong, but you'd be wrong.

    I'm not wrong either about how good Tedesco is right now compared to Hayne and Slater, that's not opinion, that's a stone cold fact. Teddy now is going good, but he isn't close to Hayne or Slater at their best, nor is Hodgson to Smith.  Sure, this year Hodgson might be the "form" hooker, but if you had to pick a team to play for your life tomorrow, I'm pretty sure you'll struggle to find anyone that would take Hodgson over Smith, hell, i doubt his parents would. He won't keep doing it for a decade.  He will be very good, possible one of England's best, but one of the greats? Please.  

    Boyd isn't one of the great rep wingers, he will never go down as a great regardless of his record, when people talk in decades to come, nobody will EVER say "I saw the great Darius Boyd play back in the day" nobody will ever remember where they were the day he retired, or regale their grand-kids with stories of his brilliance, but right now, in May 2016, he is without doubt the logical and most deserving choice for Fullback of the Australian side. End of story.

    Where did I say there were going to drop morgan? This is not the QLD team, this is the Australian team. This is his debut, as it would be milfords. Anyway, I said before - I think milford is a better player than morgan, I do rate morgan tho. I dont mind his selection on the bench, I just think that milford deserved the spot - and isnt there because mal is honouring his QLD mates ban. Does morgan cover more positions? Prob.

    Tedesco is reaching slater like levels for sure. Its crazy to say that he isnt, his year has just been superb. He's is very very close to that level this year. Whether he can maintain it and build on it over a decade is another story.

    At the moment Hodgson is brilliant - sure smith has been doing it for a long time, but this year - hodgson has been as good if not better.
    Are you serious? If a bloke is the form hooker of the comp for 10 years he wont go down as one of the great hookers? What the hell are you smoking.

    Sorry, but Boyd is one of the great QLD and Australia wingers. Is he fucking lucky to be on the end of that backline? Yep. That doesnt change the fact he has been doing it for a long time and holds numerous records.

    If my logical you mean "the safest" then sure, youre spot on.

    Ice

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    Re: Australian XVII

    Post by Ice on Mon May 02, 2016 10:28 pm

    I never said you said they would drop Morgan, I said they wouldn't. I'm not smoking anything, but do you have your reading glasses on? I agree if a bloke is the form hooker of the comp for a decade straight, like Smith, he will go down as a great, I never said that wouldn't be the case. I simply said Hodgson won't keep doing it for a decade, ergo he won't go down as a great.

    Milford didn't deserve the spot more than the premiership winning 6 and Origin Winning utility that is Morgan. Milford might be a better player, (Id agree that is a debatable point, subject to opinion) he may in fact be in slightly better touch right now( again, a debatable point)  but not by soooo much that he deserves to go straight into the Aus side ahead of Morgan who has clearly performed at the highest level in the biggest games and come out on top and fits in to this side far better than the ill disciplined Milford, (not debatable) and that is why Morgan was selected. Cause he deserved it more. FACT
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    Pieman

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    Re: Australian XVII

    Post by Pieman on Fri May 06, 2016 8:07 pm

    I'm surprised that more stink isn't made about Papalii's eligibility for Aus/QLD. Taken from Wiki -

    Born in Auckland, New Zealand, Papalii is of Samoan descent. Papalii moved to Australia at the age of 6 and was raised in Woodridge, Queensland, playing his junior rugby league for Logan Brothers before being signed by the Canberra Raiders. Papalii played 20 matches for Raiders NYC side between 2010 and 2011. In 2010 Papalii represented the Queensland under 18 side and was selected in the Junior Kiwis' training squad, although he did not make the final side. He was picked in the Jr. Kiwi's team in 2011.

    Born in NZ, lived there till he was 6, moved to QLD where he played juniors, moved to Canberra where he played TC and his senior footy.
    Pretty interesting.

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    Pieman

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    Re: Australian XVII

    Post by Pieman on Fri May 06, 2016 8:10 pm

    Ice wrote: FACT

    Deserved it more?
    Well no, thats you're opinion. And good on ya for having one and sprouting it as a fact
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    Pieman

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    Re: Australian XVII

    Post by Pieman on Fri May 06, 2016 8:15 pm

    Correct decision for the Semi-binning.
    Great call. I'm stoked that they are sin-binning blokes more these this year for stuff like that.


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    Re: Australian XVII

    Post by Guest on Fri May 06, 2016 8:26 pm

    Yeah Boyd!

    Ice

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    Re: Australian XVII

    Post by Ice on Fri May 06, 2016 10:44 pm

    Pieman wrote:

    Deserved it more?
    Well no, thats you're opinion. And good on ya for having one and sprouting it as a fact

    Mate, my opinion can also be a FACT, as it is in the case, hence his selection. It's like me saying the sun will rise tomorrow, it's my opinion, and it's basically fact.

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    Re: Australian XVII

    Post by Ice on Fri May 06, 2016 10:47 pm

    Geez they got that Boyd selection wrong didn't they.

    Semi had a wow of a game on the wing, Fergo got some chocolates, Inglis found his form back in the centres, Dugan was serviceable, and Boyd, well, clearly not up to Filling a role as Aus FB
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    Pieman

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    Re: Australian XVII

    Post by Pieman on Fri May 06, 2016 11:12 pm

    Ice wrote:Geez they got that Boyd selection wrong didn't they.

    Semi had a wow of a game on the wing, Fergo got some chocolates, Inglis found his form back in the centres, Dugan was serviceable, and Boyd, well, clearly not up to Filling a role as Aus FB

    I never once said boyd wouldnt do the job there.
    He was ok, did exactly what you would expect him to do.

    Gallen had a blinder - Gus is right tho - the team is just so old.
    Thiaday should have played his last test too IMO.
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    Pieman

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    Re: Australian XVII

    Post by Pieman on Fri May 06, 2016 11:13 pm

    Ice wrote:

    Mate, my opinion can also be a FACT, as it is in the case, hence his selection. It's like me saying the sun will rise tomorrow, it's my opinion, and it's basically fact.

    The only fact there is that he was selected

    leaguegod

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    Re: Australian XVII

    Post by leaguegod on Sat May 07, 2016 8:22 am

    Ice wrote:
    Semi had a wow of a game on the wing


    low expectations for parra players if that is a wow of a game


    he ran hard but he was hardly amazing, looked nervous at times, he'll be better for it. by far the biggest game he has played in rugby league




    i thought all 4 of our props were sensational, gallen and scott worked great in tandem and we didn't lose anything when tamou and mcguire came on


    our second rowers were very uninspiring, papali, gillett and thaiday all didn't do much at all, 2 of those are fairly young and i thought it was the position we were particularly poor, i don't think the old age thing gus is going on with fits here

    morgan is gonna play that rep utility role better then anyone since wing/berrigan used to own it


    the back line looked like it had 2 training session to gel, which it did. this game is useless mid season, play more tests in the off season and cut rep round.



    Ice

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    Re: Australian XVII

    Post by Ice on Sat May 07, 2016 8:32 am

    leaguegod wrote:


    low expectations for parra players if that is a wow of a game


    he ran hard but he was hardly amazing, looked nervous at times, he'll be better for it. by far the biggest game he has played in rugby league




    i thought all 4 of our props were sensational, gallen and scott worked great in tandem and we didn't lose anything when tamou and mcguire came on


    our second rowers were very uninspiring, papali, gillett and thaiday all didn't do much at all, 2 of those are fairly young and i thought it was the position we were particularly poor, i don't think the old age thing gus is going on with fits here

    morgan is gonna play that rep utility role better then anyone since wing/berrigan used to own it


    the back line looked like it had 2 training session to gel, which it did. this game is useless mid season, play more tests in the off season and cut rep round.



    Sorry, I'll clarify the Semi comment. It wasn't a wow of a game. He didn't get any opportunities outside Inglis in attack, just made a few really good leaps for kicks in attack and defense. However his efforts running the ball back where huge and the crowd got excited every time he launched a kick return or took one of those early hit ups, which gave us plenty of momentum, throw in four offload on top of the ones that were pulled back after a tackle call was made and he was a handful, no question. Barring injury and a return to union, when they start to give him some ball in attack, he will finish as Australia's highest ever try scoring winger. He saved an almost certain try also which, at that point of the game, may have proved crucial. Sent to the bin for it, but that's shows he is willing to do whatever it takes for Aus to prevent a try and trusts that his teammates can show some steal and defend their line.

    Ice

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    Re: Australian XVII

    Post by Ice on Sat May 07, 2016 8:34 am

    Agree our forward rotation worked very well but our backrow starters and benchies were just average and really never threatened. Even Parker was off, not a single offload for him.

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    Re: Australian XVII

    Post by Dip on Sat May 07, 2016 8:47 am

    LG's post is spot on.

    I don't care if our players are 50. If they are the best in their position pick them.

    Thaiday is a funny one. Teams with him in there always seem to play better, but never because of him. Time for him to go imo for someone who will lift the team in other ways from the bench, such as Klemmer or Napa.

    I think it's clear Australia intentionally played a style that wasn't going to be pretty, but would be effective (and let's not forget we won by 16, so it worked well). It's like we new the Kiwis with only a couple of training sessions and that team wouldn't have much in attack, so we only had to play the possession game to win. We needed to win after 3 losses, so it was a perfect game plan. Case in point is that Semi was probably the most dangerous guy on the field with his offloads, but even though he was doing it well, JT berated him for doing it on the 1st even though we were up by 12 at the time. Goes to show the professionalism of JT as well.

    Ice

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    Re: Australian XVII

    Post by Ice on Sat May 07, 2016 9:03 am

    Dip wrote:LG's post is spot on.

    I don't care if our players are 50. If they are the best in their position pick them.

    Thaiday is a funny one. Teams with him in there always seem to play better, but never because of him. Time for him to go imo for someone who will lift the team in other ways from the bench, such as Klemmer or Napa.

    I think it's clear Australia intentionally played a style that wasn't going to be pretty, but would be effective (and let's not forget we won by 16, so it worked well). It's like we new the Kiwis with only a couple of training sessions and that team wouldn't have much in attack, so we only had to play the possession game to win. We needed to win after 3 losses, so it was a perfect game plan. Case in point is that Semi was probably the most dangerous guy on the field with his offloads, but even though he was doing it well, JT berated him for doing it on the 1st even though we were up by 12 at the time. Goes to show the professionalism of JT as well.

    Yeah, I'd agree with all of that.

    I think Thaiday is probably done in the green and gold. He has been a great servant for Aus and I have a lot of respect for him but where Gallen is still punchin massive numbers, Slammin Sam just doesn't seem to provide the impact he once did. Papalli I've just flat out never rated, so I think you could improve our impact with a couple of changes there.

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    Re: Australian XVII

    Post by leaguegod on Sat May 07, 2016 9:23 am

    Gallen is playing as well as he has in 18 months imo, he and scott looked unreal together, when they went one after another, we just killed them up the middle

    tamou & mcguire were our next best forwards too, throw in props who wern't there who are young like woods, napa, klemmer aswell as guys like vaughn in the future and we're pretty good up front


    our second rowers are odd, i don't think any of papali, gillett or thaiday were bad selections, we just don't have any real standouts there, i feel i could name legitimately 15 backrowers who could do a similiar or better job but none that i would guarantee a massive success for, we seem to have a heap of really good second rowers but no great one's. i actually think gavin Cooper would be the one most likely to make an impact on the edge.


    our lack of attacking footy to me is just down to a short preparation, playing a test match on a friday when the last club round finished on Sunday is just dooming us for a dull game imo

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