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    Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs

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    Pieman

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    Re: Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs

    Post by Pieman on Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:10 pm

    @ryno_ wrote:



    lololololololol



    You need players who can give you momentum, territory and go forward. Do you get that with top shelf props? Yes. Obviously.

    Can you get that without top shelf props? Absolutely. If you think the only way to get momentum on the field is through number 8 &/or 10, your stuck in a 1990's paradigm.

    Why would you go and pay overs for a top shelf prop when the best props in the game arent even props?

    If having top props won games/premierships, Titans and Dogs would be the favourites, Tigers wouldnt dream of letting Woods go and Cowboys would have plummeted out of contention after losing Scott. They aren't, because its not. Having top props is an advantage and a good thing to have - but its not a pre-requisite for success.

    Are you so simple that you cant understand that the 13 position has changed? They are PROPS that just wear 13 now. Has Josh McGuire's game changed since he moved to 13? Has David Klemmer's? Ill answer it for you too, No. They havent.

    Manly - TTrbo - came into the league as a prop. Workhorse in the middle.
    Melbourne - Finucane - played a fair bit of prop at the bulldogs. Workhorse in the middle.
    Cowboys - tuamalolo, played a lot of prop from the bench before taking the 13 jumper. Workhorse in the middle of the park.
    Parra - Brown - has played prop his whole career at souths, starts at 13 for the eels, Workhorse in the middle of the park.
    Broncos - mcguire, always played prop till this year, workhorse in the middle of the park.
    Souths - burgess has played his fair share of prop. Workhorse in the middle of the park.
    Dragons - JDB, played prop until last year. Workhorse in the middle of the park.
    Panthers - played mostly prop until last year. Workhorse in the middle of the park.
    Sharks - Gallen, prop for NSW and Australia, played prop for the sharks a fair bit. Workhorse in the middle of the park.
    Dogs - klemmer, played prop from the bench his whole career until half way through last year when they started him. Workhorse in the middle of the park.

    Whats the common theme here mate? They all played a lot of prop, they all are big cunts who work in the middle of the park. You dont see many if any back rowers moving to play prop, but fuck me there are a lot of props moving to 13.

    So that leaves Newcastle, Canberra ,Tigers, Gold coast, Warriors, roosters - who dont have guys who either exclusively played prop starting at 13, or guys who have played their fair share of prop playing 13. Its sort of similar to how a few years ago, teams started putting their best outside back in fullback, instead of in 6. Teams now generally put their best prop in 13.

    IMO If you dont have an elite prop in this day and age - whether they are wearing 13/8/10 - you cant win the comp, unless you are melbourne, who have you know, 3 of the best players in the history of the game playing - OH and they also have prob the best prop in the comp too. Funny that.

    Where did I say the only way to get good go forward is through props? You are the one saying you dont need props at all to get go forward, which is crazy. Would be great seeing wingers take hitups off kickoffs hey mate, or returning kicks from dropouts.

    The tigers didnt want to let woods go! haha far out ... its why they were offering him close to a million a year and the cows HAVE dropped down a bit out of contention without scott. They are just lucky they have a guy who is close to the best player ever playing, and they are lucky they have had a fairly soft draw so far this year (Tigers, Souths, Newcastle, Manly, Titans - the 5 weakest teams in the comp)

    Also, Nice to know that you think the that three props (James, Wallace and Tolman) with literally zero meaningful rep games under their belts are the best props in the league. Fucking Lolz. Stick to fantasy footy mate because clearly know nothing about actual footy.

    Does having a world class prop mean you will win the comp? no.
    Does having the best halfback ever to play the game mean you will win the comp? no.
    Team are about balance, but to say prop is the least crucial position on the field is just insane and stupid lol.
    You can have the best players in any position on the park but if there isnt balance, you cant win.
    And personally, I think that a team cant win a comp without at least 1 elite prop (whether they are wearing 10/8/13).

    I know i said a few posts ago that I wouldnt comment any more one it but fuck me the ignorance is high in this one

    Dip

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    Re: Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs

    Post by Dip on Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:27 pm

    How come players wearing the 8 or 10 jersey rarely play 80 minutes, but players wearing the 13 jersey regularly play 80 minutes? Just asking for a mate.
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    ryno_

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    Re: Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs

    Post by ryno_ on Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:32 pm

    @Pieman wrote:

    Are you so simple that you cant understand that the 13 position has changed? They are PROPS that just wear 13 now. Has Josh McGuire's game changed since he moved to 13? Has David Klemmer's? Ill answer it for you too, No. They havent.


    THIS. IS. MY. EXACT. POINT.

    Prop has become less valuable as the game has evolved because you expect your lock and second rowers to be able to do a props job aswell. You dont need top props because you can get the same impact out replacement-level props with backrowers. Hence, prop (#8 & 10 for the slow ones) is less valuable.

    @Pieman wrote:

    Where did I say the only way to get good go forward is through props? You are the one saying you dont need props at all to get go forward, which is crazy. Would be great seeing wingers take hitups off kickoffs hey mate, or returning kicks from dropouts.

    Like Oates does, you mean?

    @Pieman wrote:
    Also, Nice to know that you think the that three props (James, Wallace and Tolman) with literally zero meaningful rep games under their belts are the best props in the league. Fucking Lolz. Stick to fantasy footy mate because clearly know nothing about actual footy.

    I never said they (James/Wallace) were the best props in the league, get your hand off it. They may well be the best 8 & 10 partnership alongside Canterbury - but I never said they were the best players in their position by themselves.

    @Pieman wrote:
    And personally, I think that a team cant win a comp without at least 1 elite prop (whether they are wearing 10/8/13).

    If a player is wearing #13, he is a lock. Not a prop. You keep naming all these locks who play like a prop as if it goes against my argument - it is exactly what I am saying.

    leaguegod

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    Re: Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs

    Post by leaguegod on Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:05 am

    jrey to the tigers


    sad to see him go, has given his all to the club and been one of every dogs fan favorite player since he debuted.

    its been clear for a while that our current halves aint winning us a comp, with mbye already signed, us making a move for foran likely had to force this so on that basis, it is an upgrade and i can understand it but still hard to fully endorse it


    tigers are in for a roller coaster, he does some weird shit but he competes so hard that its hard not to love what he does for your team
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    ryno_

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    Re: Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs

    Post by ryno_ on Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:43 am

    @leaguegod wrote:jrey to the tigers


    sad to see him go, has given his all to the club and been one of every dogs fan favorite player since he debuted.

    its been clear for a while that our current halves aint winning us a comp, with mbye already signed, us making a move for foran likely had to force this so on that basis, it is an upgrade and i can understand it but still hard to fully endorse it


    tigers are in for a roller coaster, he does some weird shit but he competes so hard that its hard not to love what he does for your team

    He'll be a good partner for Brooks in the halves... shades of DCE/Foran in the Manly days. One (supposedly) flashy player and one little nugget who competes harder then anybody.

    Its a good move for both teams.
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    Pieman

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    Re: Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs

    Post by Pieman on Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:45 pm

    Yeah good move for the tigers, even though they poached the wrong half. Could have got mbye for that kind of money.
    Still, Its a good move.
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    Pieman

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    Re: Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs

    Post by Pieman on Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:55 pm

    @ryno_ wrote:

    THIS. IS. MY. EXACT. POINT.

    Prop has become less valuable as the game has evolved because you expect your lock and second rowers to be able to do a props job aswell. You dont need top props because you can get the same impact out replacement-level props with backrowers. Hence, prop (#8 & 10 for the slow ones) is less valuable.



    Like Oates does, you mean?



    I never said they (James/Wallace) were the best props in the league, get your hand off it. They may well be the best 8 & 10 partnership alongside Canterbury - but I never said they were the best players in their position by themselves.



    If a player is wearing #13, he is a lock. Not a prop. You keep naming all these locks who play like a prop as if it goes against my argument - it is exactly what I am saying.

    No. Just no. All those guys are props who wear 13. Call it what you want, but they are props playing 13. Props are so important that teams now start games with 3 props on the field. Most teams actually punted the third starting back rower and replaced them with a PROP.

    Like Oates how he spills the ball coming out of his own end at least once a game? I dont think Ive ever seen him line up under the posts to return a kick off or drop out.

    Yeh ya did.

    And good, so you agree with me. Those props playing in 13. Good stuff.

    Im right youre wrong mate, bad luck Smile
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    ryno_

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    Re: Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs

    Post by ryno_ on Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:09 am

    @Pieman wrote:
    No. Just no. All those guys are props who wear 13. Call it what you want, but they are props playing 13. Props are so important that teams now start games with 3 props on the field. Most teams actually punted the third starting back rower and replaced them with a PROP.

    10 years ago, some locks played almost as a 2nd 5/8th (your Stewart/Williamson/Maitua/Stagg/Sutton/Mateo/Lewis model... Shit even Tonie Carrol was an in-a-pinch 5/8th) but nobody would call them halves. They are still a lock.

    Ill step through it, see if you can keep up.

    Traditionally, teams would have 2 props on the field (at least in the starting side) doing the bulk of the hitup heavy lifting.
    The game has evolved such that most teams have transitioned to 2 props and a lock (or occasionally a second rower) doing the bulk of the hitups.
    The number of hitups/game has not increased.
    The number of hitups/lock/game has increased.
    The number of hitups/prop/game has therefore decreased.
    Therefore, the value of a prop has decreased.

    Q-E-motherfucking-D.

    You can argue the toss all you want but it will not change the fact that since 1989 props have worn jerseys 8 & 10 exclusively.

    In terms you can understand...

    If your 2 full time carers, who work 12 hours a day each to stop you from smearing your shit on the walls of whatever institution you are currently in, are replaced by 3 part time carers working 8 hours a day each, the value of each of those part-time carers is less then the full-time ones. Does that make more sense? Can you ask them to explain it to you?

    leaguegod

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    Re: Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs

    Post by leaguegod on Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:45 am

    i'm not gonna comment on the rest of the league but for the bulldogs, i don't care what jersey david klemmer wears, he is 100% a prop, he plays like a prop, he is in the middle more then what some of our other props are (eg graham and kasiano who can drift wider).


    i don't think all the guys pieman mentioned are props, and to his point, dale Finucane never played anything but lock at the dogs, he would have rarely spent time at prop but i don't think "workhorse middle" makes you a prop

    Tony Grimaldi was a workhorse middle but he was far from a prop, guys like finucane, JDB and Jake T offer a great mix mobility & physicality in defense that props don't generally have, just because they play in the middle doesn't make them props


    but i do think some team play their 13 as a 3rd prop, we're one, i think gal at his stage is a bit like that too

    leaguegod

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    Re: Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs

    Post by leaguegod on Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:49 am

    montoya has been brilliant since his debut, strong ball runner, better decision making then expected and great under the high ball


    but is getting dropped for hoppa, i really don't like this call, finially have a young player performing consistently and we drop him
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    SI
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    Re: Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs

    Post by SI on Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:48 pm

    Have always hated Grub but after seeing how James Graham spoke about him, well hey, is he maybe a bit Ennis-esque? If so then good move by the mighty Tigers.


    leaguegod

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    Re: Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs

    Post by leaguegod on Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:11 pm

    i was in awe watching graham speak about jrey, it was amazing to watch imo



    and then MR Rent-A-Quote piped in and ruined everything!




    despite the stupid shit he can do, i can't help but to have jrey has one of my favorite players. its a roller coaster supporting the guy because geez he can go do very weird stuff but when he makes game winning plays from simply trying harder then the other team, you love him and he has done that so many times, he just doesn't stop trying and sometimes that effort results in matching tries/asssists/tackles that others just arn't there for



    i'll miss him but as i said, it can be a roller coaster, he is also capable of doing some odd stuff that can lose you games!
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    SI
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    Re: Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs

    Post by SI on Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:46 pm

    Yeah, was horrified when it was first announced, but warming to it.
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    Pieman

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    Re: Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs

    Post by Pieman on Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:23 am

    He puts in the kind of effort that Thurston does, but doesn't have half the ability.
    In saying that, half of Thurston ability is still very very good

    leaguegod

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    Re: Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs

    Post by leaguegod on Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:21 pm

    that was as an enjoyable win as i can remember, losing graham after like 10 minutes, jrey before half time and being down by against a quality team, i didn't give us much of a chance but geez we were tough in that second half, raiders didn't seem to want a part of


    BJ destroyed Jmoz at belmore last year, watching the morris boys carve leipana up on both sides of the ball was awesome, jmoz was defending like he had sky blue on, it was a timely reminded of just good the morris boys can be.

    with the yards leipana usually make, i doubt any other centre/wing pairing makes 170 more metres then them again this year, they had nothing last night, again made more satisfying because of them murdering jmoz at belmore last year


    heaps of others had strong games when we needed players to step up, Hoppa was probably man of the match. tolman, klemmer, jackson and elliot all strong too. just a very enjoyable win given how low our chances would have been at halftime


    needed it too, some more tough games coming up, starting with the cowboys who we never beat
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    No Worries
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    Re: Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs

    Post by No Worries on Tue May 09, 2017 2:29 pm

    Foran has told team mates he wont be at the Warriors next year

    leaguegod

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    Re: Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs

    Post by leaguegod on Wed May 10, 2017 7:55 am

    sure does like a forgone conclusion now, can't think of any other sydney club that would be likely to be throwing their hand up
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    ryno_

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    Re: Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs

    Post by ryno_ on Wed May 10, 2017 8:22 am

    @leaguegod wrote:sure does like a forgone conclusion now, can't think of any other sydney club that would be likely to be throwing their hand up

    Townsend is off contract end of the year... Im sure the sharks would like to keep him but they might not be able to afford him - he'd be well entitled to a pay rise. And Newcastle would find a place for him if he was interested - his experience would be invaluable for their young team.

    Bulldogs do see the most likely though.

    leaguegod

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    Re: Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs

    Post by leaguegod on Wed May 10, 2017 9:57 am

    i thought townsend just re-signed ?
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    ryno_

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    Re: Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs

    Post by ryno_ on Wed May 10, 2017 11:21 am

    @leaguegod wrote:i thought townsend just re-signed ?

    Very likely he has and I missed the announcement.

      Current date/time is Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:33 pm