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    Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

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    Ice

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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by Ice on Thu Mar 17, 2016 2:21 pm

    Your Name wrote:

    So you have benefited from the Eels rorting the cap or the TPA company paid for the box ?

    Who said anything about the Eels, I don't live in Parra. I'm a league fan.

    Ice

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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by Ice on Thu Mar 17, 2016 2:25 pm

    Yep, time to get this thread back on track.

    I'm wrong, we shouldn't wait for all the evidence to be presented and investigated, we should shut the whole Club down and give the licence to the second Brisbane franchise.....no, wait, Bribane isn't big enough to support 2 teams, not enough TPS going around.........

    Eels with a leg in the air Friday......
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    ryno_

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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by ryno_ on Thu Mar 17, 2016 2:32 pm

    @Ice wrote:Ryno, deadest, you are suggesting now that I am saying ALL 600k is about TPAs. I honestly couldn't care less about the semantics that you keep banging on about without all the facts.

    Thats what the signed meeting minutes say. All 600k (+ 2 cars) is to be secured for dodgy TPA deals. You cant say you didnt know, because I quoted it previously.

    @Ice wrote:All clubs do it, you know it, and I know it, this isn't a court of law in this forum, evidence schmevidence.

    So you have no evidence of a club giving a company that doesnt sponsor them benefits? Thought not.

    @Ice wrote:But the investigation going on in the media sure as hell requires all the facts to be presented.

    Mate, I'm just saying until we have seen ALL the facts, and its been fully investigated, I'll reserve judgement, you are saying you've seen enough to hang them. So be it.

    Because the meeting minutes IS enough. It is just as solid as a signed confession FFS.

    @Ice wrote:So there you have it, you are willing to discount evidence that may in fact be totally relevant.  You can't say it isn't relevant if you haven't seen it.  Why wouldn't the leakers leak the full document and why wouldn't the media release it in full........unless if they did that it may change the context of there agenda.  How are some sections of a meetings minutes "Legally irrelevant" but others not??  Deadset, you cant say that without having seen it all.  Things said later on might absolutely give total relevance and context to abridged minuted information earlier in the minutes, THAT is the beautiful thing about minutes.

    You sound like youve never been in a meeting before. Something said outside of that section is completely irrelevant to the items discussed. If they bring it up later, it goes into the minutes in the correct section. Minutes aren't a totally chronological account of what happened. If they say something which relates to an old topic, it has to go into the old topic section. Ergo, if there are more pages to the minutes, they are irrelevant. If it was relevant to the discussion, it would be with the rest of the discussion. Thats the entire point of having it in segments.

    And the board signed the minutes as being correct.

    @Ice wrote:
    I'm not mad, how can you be mad when your team are the reiging Champions........seriously, I was trying to lighten the mood theier earlier but it clearly went over your head.   Who do you go for anyway Ryno, ive completely forgotten.

    It was pretty heavily implied its the team placed second. The guys who beat Parramatta in round 1. The reigning runners-up.
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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by No Worries on Thu Mar 17, 2016 2:40 pm

    @Ice wrote:

    Who said anything about the Eels, I don't live in Parra. I'm a league fan.

    You're an Eels fan, Eels have a documented history or rorting not only TPA's but the salary cap. I just put 2 and 2 together. No other team is rorting the salary cap according to the Courier Mail.

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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by Guest on Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:17 pm

    Your Name wrote:

    You're an Eels fan, Eels have a documented history or rorting not only TPA's but the salary cap. I just put 2 and 2 together. No other team is rorting the salary cap according to the Courier Mail.

    Someone should look into the Tigers and how many players they still have on their books.

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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by Dip on Thu Mar 17, 2016 5:13 pm

    @Ice wrote:

    I have no problem with this, that they cant do it is a joke.

    The only people with their head buried in the sand are the people that think it doesn't happen at every club and the people who think it shouldn't be allowed to happen.

    Of course they shouldn't be allowed to do it. Otherwise you'd get no-one paying for corporate boxes or hospitality.

    "Dip, you want to get together with your mates for a corporate box at Suncorp for the Cowboys match next Friday? Don't pay for it, instead just give $10,000 direct to Anthony Milford as a TPA. Should you be happening to walk past Level 4 on the Western Stand side and you see an empty 20 seat corporate box with your name written on the unlocked door with a stocked bar fridge, feel free to go in and use it for a few hours. And if you pay Milford $20K, that same box might still be unlocked and empty a fortnight later..."

    Admittedly with some teams that have a recent history of missing the finals and wooden spoons, there might actually be a few empty corporate boxes on game day a their home ground. I wish it was legal. With the quality, demand and price of corporate boxes at Suncorp Stadium, we'd have enough TPA's to have the players to win the premiership every second year. We'd probably play about 20 matches a year at Lang Park when other clubs took their home games there simply to sell the corporate boxes to the highest bidder.

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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by Dip on Thu Mar 17, 2016 5:20 pm

    @Honeysett wrote:Just weighing in on the corporate box, that happens everywhere. I've been to a handful of games in every code around Australia thanks to sponsors either from mates I know or our own.

    Surely there's nothing wrong with that, that's the perks of being a sponsor.

    Your interpretation isn't correct. The issue isn't that the sponsor handed out free tickets that they got from the club as part of the sponsorship package (which is what you got), it's that the TPA sponsor were given (or discounted) the corporate box from the club.
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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by Honeysett on Thu Mar 17, 2016 5:55 pm

    @Dip wrote:

    Your interpretation isn't correct. The issue isn't that the sponsor handed out free tickets that they got from the club as part of the sponsorship package (which is what you got), it's that the TPA sponsor were given (or discounted) the corporate box from the club.

    Ah right, yep sorry that was an oversight on my part. Gotcha. Yeah not the best look, does conflict quite poorly. Considering when the club flies the family in for games it's only excluded from the cap if it's their debut game (I think they should also do it for milestone games as well)
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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by No Worries on Thu Mar 17, 2016 6:55 pm

    @Honeysett wrote:

    Ah right, yep sorry that was an oversight on my part. Gotcha. Yeah not the best look, does conflict quite poorly. Considering when the club flies the family in for games it's only excluded from the cap if it's their debut game (I think they should also do it for milestone games as well)

    They loosened that up to include milestones, but it was only like 100,200,300 or something. But still not as generous as the AFL.

    Wasn't that another cap rort the Eels engaged in ?

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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by Dip on Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:34 pm

    Yep. It was FFMM and his son from NZ.
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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by Krump on Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:10 pm

    @Dip wrote:Yep. It was FFMM and his son from NZ.
    That is one that really was rubbish, family game my arse(unless it's a boat for dad).
    The baffling part of all of this is Parra being dumb enough to get sprung and not having a fall Gee to take the blame.
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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by No Worries on Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:47 am

    @Ice tell me more about this squeaky clean board who voted in their own pay rises a year after the members who paid the pay rise and voted it down ?

    Ice

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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by Ice on Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:44 am

    @ryno_ wrote:

    Thats what the signed meeting minutes say. All 600k (+ 2 cars) is to be secured for dodgy TPA deals. You cant say you didnt know, because I quoted it previously.



    So you have no evidence of a club giving a company that doesnt sponsor them benefits? Thought not.



    Because the meeting minutes IS enough. It is just as solid as a signed confession FFS.



    You sound like youve never been in a meeting before. Something said outside of that section is completely irrelevant to the items discussed. If they bring it up later, it goes into the minutes in the correct section. Minutes aren't a totally chronological account of what happened. If they say something which relates to an old topic, it has to go into the old topic section. Ergo, if there are more pages to the minutes, they are irrelevant. If it was relevant to the discussion, it would be with the rest of the discussion. Thats the entire point of having it in segments.

    And the board signed the minutes as being correct.



    It was pretty heavily implied its the team placed second. The guys who beat Parramatta in round 1. The reigning runners-up.

    like I said, I've been to a game on tickets supplied to a third party sponsor, I know plenty of people who also have for various teams. I'm not sure what evidence you are wanting, but that's the reality of it.

    I've sat in plenty of meetings for different companies that are minuted and yep, you're right there is only one way to prepare minutes, a universal method if you will, and you have seen the way that the Parra Board have their minutes. Seriously, I'm not suggesting the format you suggest is one that might well be used, but again, have you seen the whole document, even the whole section that they are referring to or just some extracts in the media. What don't you understand Ryno? I'm prepared to wait till all the evidence is in, you're happy with trial by media. That's ok, I've got no drama with that, if that is the way you roll then so be it, I'm not judgemental on things like that, but if you want to knock me for wanting to see ALL the facts then it says more about you than me.

    Ahh, Broncos, thought so, have tipped them to win the lot this year and only lose 4 games. Will certainly have the best defensive record in the league and could post some big numbers in attack as the year progresses. Should be a good year for your boys. Solid round one win over a depleted Eels was a very good performance given how we dominated the Champs in week 2 with a full compliment.
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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by ryno_ on Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:59 am

    @Ice wrote:
    like I said, I've been to a game on tickets supplied to a third party sponsor, I know plenty of people who also have for various teams.  I'm not sure what evidence you are wanting, but that's the reality of it.

    Show me proof that the third party sponsor received these benefits from the club. Not from another company, not as a gift from the player they sponsor. Until you can front up evidence, you have no point here.

    @Ice wrote:I'm prepared to wait till all the evidence is in, you're happy with trial by media.  That's ok, I've got no drama with that, if that is the way you roll then so be it, I'm not judgemental on things like that, but if you want to knock me for wanting to see ALL the facts then it says more about you than me.

    Meeting minutes are a legal document. If they arent being prepared in that way, its their own fault it could lead to them being misconstrued at a later date - hence why each section is treated in its own context and later sections cannot impact on previous (or vice versa).

    @Ice wrote:I'm prepared to wait till all the evidence is in, you're happy with trial by media.  That's ok, I've got no drama with that, if that is the way you roll then so be it, I'm not judgemental on things like that, but if you want to knock me for wanting to see ALL the facts then it says more about you than me.

    Its not trial by media. Its me looking at evidence released to the media, without reading any media op-ed piece on it. I dont need to see any more evidence then a signed confession. If a signed confession isnt enough evidence for you, what is?

    @Ice wrote:Ahh, Broncos, thought so, have tipped them to win the lot this year and only lose 4 games. Will certainly have the best defensive record in the league and could post some big numbers in attack as the year progresses.  Should be a good year for your boys. Solid round one win over a depleted Eels was a very good performance given how we dominated the Champs in week 2 with a full compliment.

    Will lose 7 or 8 games, should finish top 2. Any goal past round 26 is stupid to set this early on, once you start finals, anything could happen... its a totally new competition.

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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by Ice on Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:55 am

    Your Name wrote:@Ice tell me more about this squeaky clean board who voted in their own pay rises a year after the members who paid the pay rise and voted it down ?

    I have never ever said the board is squeaky clean.

    The members voted it down before they took the Leagues Club from a financial loss to record profit. If you turned a business around to the tune of $12million, do you think a bump in honorariums is justifiable?

    Again, Boards/Politicians giving themselves pay rises, seriously, this is what passes as news these days??

    Fu.ck we are a nation of whinges.

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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by Ice on Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:06 am

    @ryno_ wrote:

    Show me proof that the third party sponsor received these benefits from the club. Not from another company, not as a gift from the player they sponsor. Until you can front up evidence, you have no point here.



    Meeting minutes are a legal document. If they arent being prepared in that way, its their own fault it could lead to them being misconstrued at a later date - hence why each section is treated in its own context and later sections cannot impact on previous (or vice versa).



    Its not trial by media. Its me looking at evidence released to the media, without reading any media op-ed piece on it. I dont need to see any more evidence then a signed confession. If a signed confession isnt enough evidence for you, what is?



    Will lose 7 or 8 games, should finish top 2. Any goal past round 26 is stupid to set this early on, once you start finals, anything could happen... its a totally new competition.

    I'm not trying to make a point, I'm just saying it happens.

    Your point about the minutes is erroneous in the extreme. To imply there is only 1 way minutes of a meeting can be formatted is wrong. There may be requirements of what needs to be in there, but that they need to strictly adhere to one single format is wrong, unless you can provide evidence that they must be, globally, in the same format. But I agree, its irrelevant and we arte playing semantics now.

    Have you seen a full signed confession from a source not in the media that isn't just an extract? If so, then fair enough, if not, then its trial by media, which may turn out to all be right, but I'll wait for the full investigation, and you can go off half cocked. But again, semantics.

    Don't try and play it down Ryno, anything less than a GF win is a major fail (barring injuries). Fortunately it won't happen, cause I have already put my hard earned on it.
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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by ryno_ on Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:54 am

    @Ice wrote:...But again, semantics.

    Fair enough.

    @Ice wrote:Don't try and play it down Ryno, anything less than a GF win is a major fail (barring injuries). Fortunately it won't happen, cause I have already put my hard earned on it.

    Am I reasonably confident we will get to play at home in the finals and be competing for a premiership in October? Sure. But this early in the season, expectations like yours are unhelpful and pointless. Its so far away and anything could happen between now and origin, let alone now at the GF.

    Besides, if you ask the bookies, the most likely result is a non-broncos premier, so its hardly a major fail if we dont get the chocolates.
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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by Honeysett on Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:26 pm

    @ryno_ wrote:

    Fair enough.



    Am I reasonably confident we will get to play at home in the finals and be competing for a premiership in October? Sure. But this early in the season, expectations like yours are unhelpful and pointless. Its so far away and anything could happen between now and origin, let alone now at the GF.

    Besides, if you ask the bookies, the most likely result is a non-broncos premier, so its hardly a major fail if we dont get the chocolates.

    You would think that losing a grand final in golden point and not losing a great deal of talent would mean they're favourites or close to for the premiership and if they fail to achieve it I would call it a failed season. This is their chance to win the premiership.

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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by leaguegod on Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:41 pm

    unless you're a broncos of the 90's team(which no one is today) , i think anyone calling something like making the prelim finals a failed season is a bit ridiculous and not giving enough credit to the other teams in comp


    broncos and cows are by far the most complete teams but there are still several sides that can and will challenge them on their day.

    re eels, todays paper story did seem like a bit of a beat up to me and alot of the stories have been that way but there is no doubt that some of the stuff that has been printed has seemed very dodgy.

    i do agree with ice, that i don't think these rorts have advantaged them this year (from what i've read ? ) so i don't think points should be deducted, points deduction should only be used as a leveler when teams are fielding sides above the cap in that year (eg dogs, warriors and storm). maybe a suspended point deduction as deter-ant

    hopefully its all resolved soon so the papers can get over the story, toddy's first job should be come down hard ($ wise) and move it on

    i did read that if hoppa wins his case which he is expected to from what i've read, the money parra pays to him will have to be included in the cap, so that would be another blow

    re tonight, good luck ice and other eels fans, i find it hard to believe we can win 3 to start the year so have a feeling we'll lose but it should be a good contest.

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    Re: Cap cheating, pill popping Eels in CRISIS 2016 thread

    Post by Honeysett on Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:01 pm

    @leaguegod wrote:unless you're a broncos of the 90's team(which no one is today) , i think anyone calling something like making the prelim finals a failed season is a bit ridiculous and not giving enough credit to the other teams in comp

    broncos and cows are by far the most complete teams but there are still several sides that can and will challenge them on their day.


    You would think that they would see that themselves as well, a Wayne Bennett coached team that made the GF in his first year back there with another preseason under his watch is expected to go one better.

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